Posts by Ingenuous

In my imagination, I see the blood policy becoming a conscience matter, though with the Society still preaching its disapproval. It would also be nice to see the baptismal questions go back to what they were (either previous version) but somehow I don't see that happening.

12

What's the JW view on food intake?

by sonnyboy in

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i've been thinking, if the jws won't allow smoking, excessive drinking, or the alteration of the outer body, do they also have rules about caloric, saturated fat, transfat, and sodium intake?

these things can be just as harmful to the body in the long run.

Ingenuous

*** w85 12/15 p. 22 Self-Control Vital for Christians ***
However, overdrinking and gluttony are not only unhealthy but may even result in a Christian’s being excluded from the Christian congregation.

*** w87 9/15 p. 19 Keep Submitting to "the Spirit That Is Life-Giving" ***
Gluttony and drunkenness are condemned in the Bible. (Proverbs 23:20, 21) So be honest and ask yourself: Is there room for improvement in my eating and drinking habits? If you need to exercise greater self-control, recognize this and work in harmony with your prayers for God’s spirit to help you overcome this problem. "Do not be getting drunk with wine, in which there is debauchery, but keep getting filled with spirit," said Paul. (Ephesians 5:18) Yes, become filled with God’s spirit, and do not succumb to the unrestrained spirit of this world! "Whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory." (1 Corinthians 10:31) If you have persistent problems along these lines, however, seek the help of spiritually mature men in the congregation.—Galatians 6:1; James 5:14, 15.

*** w78 12/15 pp. 10-11 Gluttony—Why Avoid It? ***
In the days of the apostles of Jesus Christ, it appears that some gave themselves up to overindulgence. Hence, when Paul instructed Timothy and Titus as to who should serve in responsible positions within the Christian congregation, he warned against appointing greedy persons and specified that those selected should be "moderate in habits." (1 Tim. 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-9) Obviously, this would exclude gluttons. Such "greedy persons" will not inherit God’s kingdom.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10.

While they admit that body size isn't enough to label someone a glutton, how they're supposed to enforce this without someone asking for reproof is beyond me.

104

Deny this! Brooklyn! I dare you

by stevenyc in

i'm to angry right now to write a complete synopsis on the following article from the watchtower.

it regarding child molestation and repressed memories.

i'll put in one quote, and leave this rest for you to read at your leasure.. ps, probably worth copying this because i would be surprised if they will leave it up much longer!.

Ingenuous

I will never understand why the "two witnesses rule" is interpreted in such a way that the Org sees no need to report every case mentioned to them to the police. So they can't do anything judicial "scripturally." That is absolutely no excuse for failing to notify authorities.

Why can't the accused be on "probation", so to speak (limited priviledges), in the congregation until the matter is resolved with the police? There'd be no need to make an announcement unless authorities decided there was reason to press charges.

And why is an offender prevented from having any authority in the congregation, but can go door-to-door taking down the names and addresses of any home with young children in it? How many people would want an offender on their doorstep, regardless?

I used to work at a child abuse center where they would get a police detective, social worker, and (when they bothered to show up) a rep from the attorney general's office and record an interview with the victims. I transcribed the interviews. I watched kids between the ages of 3 and 13 talk about and demonstrate with dolls what was done with them. I saw pictures from medical exams of what kids would do to themselves when they were being sexually abused. Some of the detectives were those very special kinds of idiots who wouldn't believe a kid unless they had hard evidence. It's tough enough on these children and their families for them to also have to meet the inane demands the Org puts on them to receive justice within the congregation.

And I am enraged that so many JWs are lead to believe (as I was) that the elders are doing all they can to physically and scripturally take care of their children.

36

People who never cry....

by JH in

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does this mean that they have less feelings, or that they were taught not to show their feelings, or they don't have any?

Ingenuous

I bawled like an absolue newborn when I first discussed the blood issue with an elder who was really close to my family. I was so upset by how many families have been destroyed because someone took blood and was disfellowshipped. I was absolutely heartbroken thinking of those who've died. I had never cried for them before.

The elder couldn't understand why I was so emotional. He said it was dangerous to my spirituality (i.e., remaining an active JW).

30

Demonic exorcism by a JW elder

by out of the box in

we moved into an apartment on the 2nd floor.

we were jws at the time, and the family on the first floor under us was studying.. the girl downstairs started hearing noises during the night and finally hearing steps up to the side of her bed.

she was so scared she hadn't slept in a while and was so tired.

Ingenuous

He read from some book and then the Bible.

What was the other book?

23

Mental illness among JWs: cause or effect?

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is compelling, published evidence (see link below) to suggest higher rates of mental illness among jws compared to other religious sects, and the general population.

what is your opinion, is this because people with "susceptibility" to mental illness are more likely to be attracted to the lifestyle and psychology of the wts, or after joining and being an active member for years, the jw psychology and lifestyle are simply enough to push any psychologically healthy individual into psychopathology?

http://www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html

Ingenuous

From Apocalypse Delayed by M. James Penton:

... As with many missionary-minded religions, they openly boast that they attract individuals who have suffered severe social and psychological deprivation and those who have been alcoholics and drug addicts. So it is not surprising that some of those persons bring the effects of their old problems into the Witness community....

In addition, there are factors characteristic of Witness life itself which undoubtedly bring about a degree of mental illness. Zealous pioneers have on many occasions sacrificed both their physical and mental health out of a spirit of devotion. The Christian doctrine of self-sacrifice, admirable as it no doubt may be, causes some serious mental stress among the most devout Witnesss of Jehovah. At the same time, attitudes of super-pietism also have a detrimental effect on some of the persons manifesting them or, additionally, on a number of those who are objects of their 'over-righteousness.'

All this is well-known to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Over the last decade a number of Witness lawyers, physicians, and other professionals have held annual closed meetings with representatives of the governing body to discuss legal and medical questions.... Dr. Lawrence Onda, a California psychologist...: "I would like to consider another reason why Jehovah's people have mental problems, but I want to be cautious that some do not misunderstand the following statements. I have tremendous love, respect, and devotion for Jehovah's true organization, but it can contribute to or accelerate an existing problem rather than making it better. What Biblical teaching contributes to making a problem worse? It is guilt. Jehovah's people are confronted with a higher standard and thus have greater psychological pressure. The 'world' says, if it makes you feel guilty, get rid of it. But we have to maintain the high level of Christian conduct in our families, daily lives and personalities. We cannot think a wrong thought without feeling guilty. If the Witness becomes unbalanced, he/she may become overly despondent and feel like a failure because perfection cannot be attained in mind, body and thought. In essence, some of the 'Friends' try so hard to please Jehovah that they become mentally ill.

Notice the interesting statement about "super-pietism" having a detrimental effect on those on the recieving end.

Also interesting is how Brother Onda has to carefully qualify his statements so he isn't accused of criticising the Org and how he describes "guilt" as a "Biblical teaching."

55

At 5$ a gallon for gas, will you modify your driving habits?

by JH in

jw
friends

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-gas17.html

5 bucks a gallon for gas?

expert sees it in 2006 .

Ingenuous

When it hits $3, I'm going to start walking (asthma, schmasthma), taking the bus, carpooling.

If I could afford a hybrid vehicle, I could afford to pay $3 - $5 a gallon...

21

the walking dead

by kj in

i know that jws view df'd ones as the walking dead, but how do they view non-jws?

i thought that they considered them walking dead, too, but my mom says no.

can anyone clear that up for me?

Ingenuous

More to the point: Witnesses view worldly people as potential sheep until they've been preached to. If they don't respond "favorably", they're as good as dead.

w52
6/1 pp. 341-350

Fixing Destinies in This Judgment Period

WE unquestionably enter a judgment period upon the second presence of Christ. Judgment began at the house of God, cleansed the anointed remnant of Babylonish filth, released them from Babylonish bondage, enabled them to flee greater Babylon to escape sharing in her plagues. They were freed to preach, to herald the establishment of the heavenly kingdom, to sound a warning of the impending "accomplished end": "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for the purpose of a witness to all the nations, and then the accomplished end will come." (Matt. 24:14, 21, 22; 1 Pet. 4:17, NW) This enlightenment brought responsibility and laid a foundation for judgment: "Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world." (John 3:19-21, NW) Hence the judgment that started at the house of God spread to take in all peoples of all nations, as Jesus had said it would at his second presence: "When the Son of man arrives in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left." The sheep who showed kindness to Christ’s brothers inherit new world blessings, but the goats who refused kindness to them go off "into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels". Christ’s judgment is: "These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life." The goats remain in greater Babylon and share her plagues; the sheep belong to God and live by heeding the command: "Get out of her, my people."—Matt. 25:31-46, NW.

2

This judgment period will be completed during this generation, and when the execution of judgment starts at Armageddon the destinies of all persons then living will have been fixed. Some become perturbed over this, and speculate on the existence of a third class not separated into sheep and goat categories, and which will be resurrected in the millennium for its judgment period. Into this third class they would put all babes and children, and any adults not reached by the Kingdom message by the time Armageddon strikes. Such speculators can produce no solid Scriptural support for their theory. It seems to be spawned either by human sentiment over creature salvation or by a negative, defeatist attitude toward a successful completion of the preaching work. Or by both.

3

Jehovah’s Word states that the Kingdom message "will be preached in all the inhabited earth for the purpose of a witness to all the nations". Will his word return void? his purpose unfulfilled? No; even the stones would cry out to prevent that! (Isa. 46:11; 55:11; Luke 19:40) To all nations, throughout the inhabited earth, the witness given will be sufficient to meet Jehovah’s purpose, and it will be completed before the "accomplished end" or Armageddon comes. This witness will provide the basis for the judgment wherein the people of all nations are separated into sheep and goat classes, by Christ Jesus. Will Christ the Judge do a halfway job? Will he fail to complete the job outlined for him, and have an unforetold third class left over that he failed to separate? Or will he complete the dividing work Jehovah committed to him, and separate the people of all nations into just the two foretold classes, and thereby accomplish the divine purpose and fulfill the divine word?

4

This judgment period from 1914 to Armageddon is set aside for this separation work and is a part of the sign that we are in "the time of the end". Will Christ loiter at the separation work, so that he will have to finish it in a future judgment day, and fail to fully provide this part of the sign? Some argue that the parable of the sheep and goats applies on into the millennium. They ignore the fact that the separation is complete before the sheep inherit the new world blessings of the millennial reign, that this separation takes place when he arrives, not centuries thereafter. Nations exist; there will be no such divisions along national lines in the new world. The judgment work assigned to this period must be completed before execution starts at Armageddon. Judgment at the house of God was completed, not left half done; so will it be with the judgment of the nations during the same judgment period.

5

In harmony with the illustration of the sheep and goats, Ezekiel 9:4-6 (AT) shows but two classes, those marked for preservation and the unmarked ones appointed to destruction. And in this prophetic picture of Armageddon’s slaughter note that the executional forces do not spare individuals on the grounds of age or sex: "Slay without mercy or pity. Old men, young men and maidens, little children and women—strike them all dead! But touch no one on whom is the mark." Note that in this picture the ones preserved are those who did "sigh and cry for all the abominations" done in the land in reproach of Jehovah’s true worship. In the parable of sheep and goats the ones preserved showed favor toward Christ’s brothers. In both cases the ones destroyed were those who remained indifferent or neutral as well as opposers. Christ Jesus, during the judgment period when he was on earth, laid down the principle for such times: "He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters." (Matt. 12:30, NW) No room remains for a third class.