i know i did.. we had a young fellow who used to live at my grandmother's place.
in may ways he was like family.
after he moved out of my grandmother's place i saw him frequently.
I did. Including close friends.
I didn't like it but I thought the Org knew best. I now realize how much such behavior is tied to a belief that certain people had a right to pass judgement on others and punish them when they didn't do as we thought right.
Welcoming them back when they were reinstated was such a relief - lots of big hugs and tears all around the congregation and I wasn't obliged to act like a jerk toward them anymore.
okay, first thank you to the greastest degree for the warm welcome and insight you all have given itis and me since i've started visiting your very apostate site.
my life as a jw.
it starts with my maternal grandmother.
Thank you so much for your share - so open, honest, and enlightening.
I could always, somehow, rationalize all that away; I really believed the JW's were the ONLY worldwide brotherhood, they WERE god's channel today, and that I had to look at the BIGGER picture when "little" things bothered me.Besides, everyone I've ever known and loved believed it, so IT HAS to be true.
I was raised a JW and baptized at 14. I wrestled with feelings just like this for most of my life. I handed over my intellectual integrity to the Org and my JW parents, especially my Dad, who I was convinced was the next-best-thing to Jesus. Reclaiming and being responsible for my own integrity is new territory for me - but quickly becoming more comfortable.
It's funny that even though I was having trouble putting my time line together, I just figured I wasn't understanding it yet, not that the WTS was making up dates.
Another familiar experience. When I first started "seeing the light" myself, I was so sure I was the one who was wrong, that I wasn't strong enough spiritually, that I wasn't understanding the spiritual food from the "Slave" because there was something wrong with me. I prayed so hard, over and over, that I was wrong, that this was my fault, that I'd get the discipline and correction I needed to understand the truth. And did I ever get it!
I wished he hadn't given me so much, but he really needed to get a lot off his chest also.
This was very insightful and quite commendable.
It threw me down so hard I really wondered if I'd ever recover from this.... It's only been a few months so far, and I feel like I've come so far, and yet it amazes me that I could leave "my faith" so quickly. Just shows how deep it really was. Not that deep........
When I first started my research - using only the Bible and the CD and a couple encyclopedias - it truly felt like stepping off a cliff and hoping someone would catch me. I was completely out within a month. It can go very quickly, but never underestimate how deep such indoctrination can go. You'll find it creeping in during the strangest of times.
You've come so far - and the advantages will be so much greater than you can imagine.
Peace and Blessings, Freedomlover!
here is an illustration for those who are jws and for lurkers:.
suppose a man approached you with these words, "i am god's prophet.
an important one, too.
And then...
After a while, you start wondering why so many changes have been made. You start to research the information the man (and/or his representatives) has given you. You ask others who have also been visited by this man what they think of what he says. One day, the man comes to your door. You start to explain some of your findings when he cuts you off. He tells you that you shouldn't question anything he does or says, that you shouldn't talk to anyone who knows him but disagrees with him, and that you shouldn't believe anything you read that contradicts him - even if it's his own writings. Then the kicker: he tells you that if you persist in your investigations and insist on believing he is not a prophet of God, not only is God going to kill you (because he says so), but that he'll personally make sure you never talk to your family or friends again.
What to do, what to do....?
todaythings have really come to a head and i have a massive decusion to make by 7pm tonight!.
basically i have been dfed since march tryed to get reinstated two weeks ago but they said no, thing is i only did it for my family esp my dad he is not well and i love him to pieces.
but when i got dfed i had a boyfriend and things have been up and down (hes put up with alot) but he is sticking by my side and i love him and want to be open about him and not lie anymore, .
thing is he actuelly said to me before that i could make him compromise and that even my mum said she doesnt want to be in the new world without me but i dont want to destroy their faith it is their life!
You cannot "make" them "compromise". Their choices are theirs, not yours.
Someone who wants to believe something regardless of reality will not let facts get in the way of doing so. If someone is more inclined to pursue truth, then the struggle of living by truth is inevitable. Yet, it is still their struggle and no one else's.
As opposed to trying to reason or argue or force the truth about the Org on them, it may help if you resolve ahead of time not to argue. No arguments, discussions, cajoling, etc. If you make your statement ("I'm not going back.") and simply repeat it without attempting to justify it, they'll likely lose steam. Deciding ahead of time not to argue or get sucked into a "discussion" can also relieve some of the pressure on you because you don't have anything to prove or defend. Other than letting them know you love them and that will never change and asking for the same respect that you would show them regarding personal choices, maybe you can give yourself a break by not planning a long-winded, in depth approach.
Some info on dealing with emotional blackmail may also help.
All the best!
http://hometown.aol.com/smcdownlds/courseindex.html .
Excellent resource!
And, for those who might object to visiting such a site, the text can be copied and pasted into a document.
"... when you process religious issues, you end up processing all of your issues.
these aspects of personal health and maturity are so basic.
thus, as you make a commitment to work on these areas, you are beginning a very far-reaching journey of growth and are to be commended.".
"... When you process religious issues, you end up processing all of your issues. These aspects of personal health and maturity are so basic. Thus, as you make a commitment to work on these areas, you are beginning a very far-reaching journey of growth and are to be commended."
Recovery resources from the site of psychologist Marlene Winell:
From Holy to Whole: Reclaiming Spirituality
Select chapters of Marlene's book Leaving the Fold
the jw dogma makers have tacitly admitted that numerous of their interpretations of the bible are erroneous, by bringing in new ones to replace the previous.
in fact they keep shifting their positions on most issues over the 130 years of their existence.
they try to present this as a kind of virtue: they admit their errors and humbly change them.
A good place for them to start would be to supply a list of articles where they've actually admitted their mistakes - and apologized. Given how many there have been, there should be a slew of such references if they were sincere. This would be especially so with someone who is humble, because such a person would be quick to admit they were wrong when they realized it and not what to be "found out" before coming forward.
A second idea to pursue would be documentation of how they've performed "damage control" - if they're actually humble and virtuous, they should be able to show how they've going back to all the places and people they've injured through their errors and made amends, corrected the damage, and made necessary restitution.
Third: If someone is really apologetic, they should show they've learned their lesson by not repeating the offense. And the Org's history with that is...?
*** w81 9/1 p. 24 Repentance Leading Back to God ***.... A person who is repentant does not try to minimize or justify his bad course. He recognizes in his mind the wrongness of what he did and feels in his heart deep regret over having sinned against God.
.... the important thing is that the wrongdoer is touched at heart, having a spirit of agony or sense of deep regret over having offended Jehovah and damaged his relationship with God.
... What, though, if he did not voluntarily confess and the matter had to be established by his being confronted with evidence or the testimony of witnesses? He might still (there at the meeting) be reached, acknowledging his sin. (Note the example of David’s repentance over his sin with Bath-sheba, at 2 Samuel 12:1-13.) But, especially when extensive reproof had to be given before the wrongdoer began to make any initial expressions of repentance, should the committee exercise caution.
... does the wrongdoer show genuine remorse over the reproach, problems and sorrow that he may have brought on the congregation?
... If he sinned against an individual, has he confessed his sin to that person and asked for forgiveness?... Or if the wrongdoer is guilty of fraud, has he taken any steps to compensate for the loss? In some circumstances he might be unable to undo all the damage he has caused, but does he give evidence that reasonable steps will be taken to make up for any loss? (Luke 19:8) The point is, to what extent has the guilty person produced the ‘fruit befitting repentance’?
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hello to all, i was raised pretty much as a jw and became one of the super goodie two shoes type, you know......didnt even swear when i was alone.. im now disfellowshipped and since i followed the guideline of not having friends outside the organization i now find myself completely alone, my friends are all jw's and none of them can talk to me.
so now i feel lost....on another planet almost .
{{{Michelle}}}
I've finally reached out to workmates, letting myself actually be an honest friend to them instead of using them strategically while planning for a guerilla witness. They've been great. Online groups like this one are also good, especially if you can find a couple people you really connect with and can exchange phone numbers or make friends close enough near where you live to actually meet.
If you're still interested in the Bible, finding Bible study groups near you or exploring local churches are also another avenue to improving your social and spiritual situation.
All the best!
i am trying to do the "fade" for the sake of my wife and family, but it is getting extremely difficult.
my wife's cong.
is even more nosy than most.
Whenever my folks ask me what I've been up to, it's code for, 'Are you studying the Bible with people who aren't JWs? 'Cause if so, we're gonna tell the elders and cut you off.' So I usually come up with something vague, uninteresting, brief but true, and then ask them about them. As was said, people love to talk about themselves - even family.
it may sound like a strange question, but aspects of jw behavior that are incomprehensible to outsiders actually make a morbid kind of sense when viewed through the lens of jw doctrine.
for example, about 10-12 years ago there was a single mother in my wifes congregation.
during the course of conversation, she learned that my wifes grandmother had recently passed away.
I think the emphasis on works and unrealistic standards can play havoc with mental health, especially with someone who is already very sensitive or predisposed to being a type A.
I was suicidal starting at a very young age (elementary school) and on-and-off until my mid-20s. It'd never occur to me now that I'm out.
