Posts by ChristianObserver

64

OMIGOSH! John 5:39, 40...

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

you are searching... or you search... now!.

true rendering - "you are searching the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are those which testify about me.

ChristianObserver

Hello Shelby!

Peace be with you :-)

The Greek verb "to search" is rendered in the active voice and indicative mood of the present tense in verse 39.

I think that maybe the problem with the Authorised Version (KJV) at John 5 v 39 is that the subject of the sentence is omitted. It should read:

"Ye search the scriptures...." rather than simply, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. "

This has been rectified in the New King James Version which has "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."

For the word "search"... just "search"... is FUTURE tense! It means TO search... to do something in the FUTURE.

There appears to be some confusion here as "search" is in fact present; "will/etc search" is future (the use of the modal verb 3rd singular present 'will' expressing the future tense of "search" here); and "to search" is the infinitive form of the verb. The omission of the subject "Ye", i.e. "you the Jews" (referring back to earlier verses in chapter 5) may cause some to misunderstand and to interpret "search the scriptures" as a command, either for now or for the future.

[As a point of interest, in the majority of instances the present tense in Greek corresponds directly with the English present tense. However, sometimes the present tense is used in Greek for phrases where we would use the past tense in English. These "historical presents" "dramatize" the event for the reader. "Historical presents" are rendered in some translations in the past tense in English, whilst others keep to the present tense.]

Shelby, do you have the NWT version of verse 39 which you could post for me please? I'd be interested to know what it says. If not, no problem :-)

I bid you peace!

75

New World Translation Errors

by ClassAvenger in

hi guys, im on a time budget here.

a jw friend of mine is trying to prove that i have a wrong, twisted bible full of errors and added scriptures.

i have a king james bible, and he has the nwt of course.

ChristianObserver

Hello :-)

You might want to use a different Bible translation (not KJV) in your discussions. The KJV contains the Johanine Comma - 1 John 5:7-8 - which was probably a gloss added later: "For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one" and a favourite criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses about the KJV. The RSV/NRSV are considered to be more scholarly by some.

You can access a 50's version of the Awake magazine which criticised the KJV about the time the NWT appeared:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:nnnat6D9kMoJ:www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-50000-errors.htm+5,000+errors+King+James+Bible+Jehovah%27s+Witnesses&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Not sure if the link will work - you might need to copy and paste it. It will give some idea of what the WTBTS think of the KJV.

128

Inky got a letter from her son.............you have to read this

by Mulan in

our niece, irene, who posts here as inky, sent me an email.

her 27 year old son is getting married in two weeks, and she posted a few days ago about how he didn't invite her to his wedding.. she told me i can post it as she doesn't want to read it again.. "dear mom.

i've needed to write this letter to you for some time now.

ChristianObserver

{{{{{{{Inky}}}}}}}}

So sorry :-(

10

Blood and the "Neo-Apologists"

by TZD in

for observers of jws on and off the internet, its no secret that certain jw doctrines are in trouble.

by this i dont mean to imply that these doctrines are subject to any imminent modification or reversal and i dont necessarily even mean to imply that these doctrines are wrong, although in some instances, i believe both to be the case.

what i mean by the phrase in trouble is that the information published by the jw parent organizations and currently available to jws today is completely inadequate even when it comes to responding to a polite level of inquiry from the average intelligent individual.

ChristianObserver

Hello Tom

Welcome :-)

I look forward to reading further contributions!

Please check your Inbox.

Best wishes

73

"Jehovah Has ALWAYS Had An Organization"

by minimus in

jw
friends

what do you say to that statement?

ChristianObserver

Found the following on an AOL message board which seems related to the discussion here. Anyone who uses AOL can access the board. Type The Faith into the web address bar, then click Messages, then select The Faith, then select TESTIMONY OF ANNE. There don't seem to be any ex-Jehovah's Witness posting there btw.

For those who cannot access the board

Subject: Re: TESTIMONY OF "ANNE" former Jehovah's Witness
Date: 07/04/2003 21:06 GMT Standard Time
Response from: Chicnagorb (replying to the questions in italics following on from discussion about God's spirit-directed organisation)

>Do you think then that any people who ardently desire to seek God, to be
>footstep followers of Jesus, who love God with all their hearts and their
>neighbours as themselves, and who have been baptised in the name of the
>Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, but who are not associated with
>the Watchtower Society, are denied direction by means of the Holy Spirit?

The apostle Paul in the first century had a Zeal for God but not according to accurate Knowledge he followed the Jewish system.

I'm sure you'll agree that to be a footstep follower of Jesus then one must do what he did. Jesus’ disciples followed his footsteps in Christian educational work and had success similar to his. They not only preached the good news of God's Kingdom everywhere but also taught those who would listen. (Ac 2:42)

They, like Jesus, were bold and spoke with authority. (Ac 4:13, 19, 20; 5:29) God’s spirit empowered them and gave evidence of divine approval of their teaching. They taught in the temple, in synagogues, and from house to house. (Ac 5:16, 21; 13:14-16; 20:20) They met with fellow Christians for teaching and inciting one another to love and fine works.—Ac 20:7, 8; Heb 10:24, 25.

The apostle Paul described the different offices and activities in the congregation that were filled by mature men, among them being teachers. He showed that the purpose of all these activities was education, with a view to the training of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ. (Eph 4:11-16) A regular program of education in God’s Word was carried on by the congregation, as outlined in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. All the members of the Christian congregation, even the women, were to be teachers; they were to make disciples of the people of the world. (Ac 18:26; Heb 5:12; Ro 12:7) But within the congregation itself mature men were appointed to oversight, as, for example, Timothy and Titus. (1Ti 2:12) Such men had to be those qualified to teach the congregation and to correct things that may have got out of line. They were to use extraordinary care to ensure that their teaching was accurate and healthful.—1Ti 4:16; 2Ti 4:2, 3; Tit 2:1.

First century christians set the criteria for christians today, who are also commissioned to preach a teach the good News of God's kingdom world wide. Therefore christians who would be doing that work, on Jesus inspection, would be the ones he would appoint over all his belongings Mt 24:45-47.

So the question is which group are fulfilling that criteria of those first century Christians today? It is Jehovah's people.

28

Causing divisions is doing God's will!

by rebel in

i was speaking to hubby tonight.

i was explaining why i can't and won't go back to the kh.

i tried to explain my feelings as best i could without annoying him or making him feel upset.

ChristianObserver

Hello Rebel :o)

I am so sorry for the situation you find yourself in.

Blondie is right in her explanation of the passage (which is the traditional Church teaching about those verses) and you now find yourself in a similar situation to those early Christians who followed Jesus despite the disapproval of their families. Where whole families accepted Jesus, there was not a problem, just as nowadays if whole families leave the organisation together, they can weather the storm more successfully than when some members of the family remain within.

If your intention is not to disown Jesus, the verses do not apply to you:

Matt 10:33-39 "..but whoever disowns me (Jesus) before men, I (Jesus) will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.

Your husband believes that any opposition to the WTBTS view is opposition to Jehovah and/or Jesus.

This appears on the WTBTS official site:

*Why do many oppose Jehovah's Witnesses and tell me not to study with them?

There was opposition to Jesus' preaching, and he said that his followers also would be opposed. When some were impressed with Jesus' teaching, religious opposers retorted: "You have not been misled also, have you? Not one of the rulers or of the Pharisees has put faith in him, has he?" (John 7:46-48; 15:20) Many who advise you not to study with the Witnesses are either uninformed or prejudiced. Study with the Witnesses and see for yourself whether your Bible understanding increases or not.—Matthew 7:17-20.*

So in your husband's thinking, you are reacting as the Pharisees and the rulers did towards Jesus' preaching and this is why he has quoted that passage. Living outside the organisation = not living on paradise earth in his view.

Gentle questioning/doubt raising, rather than all out arguments, might be your best approach. It will take time though.

I sincerely wish you well.

16

When householders take the mags

by Sadie5 in

jw
friends

there is a homemaking type board that i visit and some of the ladies there were complaining about jws that just keep coming back.

being nice, they had accepted the mags and then threw them in the trash.

one ladies noticed that the same jw showed up every few weeks with a different person and gave her the new magazines.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

No probs CM and Gerard. Simon has supplied the answer!

Thanks Simon - and for all the hard work with the site btw

16

When householders take the mags

by Sadie5 in

jw
friends

there is a homemaking type board that i visit and some of the ladies there were complaining about jws that just keep coming back.

being nice, they had accepted the mags and then threw them in the trash.

one ladies noticed that the same jw showed up every few weeks with a different person and gave her the new magazines.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

I had no idea until a short while ago that the Jehovah's Witnesses who offered the magazines at the door had paid for them! I had never been asked for payment and assumed that the magazines came from a budget set aside for *evangelism*.

Out of interest, could you tell me how much each magazine costs?

Cheers!

34

I had my baby and I am IN LOVE!!!

by bluesapphire in

i've been off for two weeks and come back and everything is different.. i just wanted to check in and let everyone know my c-section went well and i had a beautiful, healthy baby boy.. anthony tristan was born on january 31st at 4:18 pm.

he weighed 6 lbs.

1 oz.. he had some breathing problems and was in nicu for five days.