Posts by ChristianObserver

48

Mrs Ozzie asked me to inform you all that........................

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

jw
friends

....................our great mate ozzie is sick in hospital.

he isn't able to post so i am the go-between for the moment.. if you want more details or contact information pm me and i will make sure it's ok with the ozzies to forward those details to you.. ozzie is a tough dude and having known him for many years i am confident he will be back on board before too long!.

please be patient with me as i work and can only check my pms in the evenings.

ChristianObserver

Sorry to hear that. Wishing you a speedy recovery and hoping you'll soon be back 'on board'!

102

Fuming, Angry, seething, seeing RED!!!!!!!!!!

by Gill in

my parents went to the assembly this weekend.

they were telling me about disciplining children... the speaker was saying how all babies are born selfish and demanding for their own needs and not anyone elses.

the jist of the talk being about discipline, and training children ...ie taking them out for a good beating.. well, i don't know if any of you have ever 'just seen red!

ChristianObserver

{{{Gill}}}

Speechless!

46

Vigil for Dansk

by under74 in

jw
friends

thought i'd start it this time.

never met dansk but always enjoy his posts.

so the purpose is to send good thoughts, prayers, energy or whatever it is you can muster up for dansk at the following time: .

ChristianObserver

25 hours and 20 minutes to go but each time this thread surfaces, extra thoughts winging your way.

111

My wife is getting baptized on the 19th!

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife is getting baptized on the 19th.. i wrote her a letter today.

basically i asked her why she isn't coming to me to find out my concerns.

i am the person who has the most invested in her.

ChristianObserver

CYP - Although the first quote primarily concerns witnessing to children in other households, you might be able to use this sentence to your advantage and maintain that you feel that your headship has been undermined by the witnessing that has been carried out to date within your household. This could act as a delaying tactic if you explain that you wish to be sure of all things too! Remind the elders that as head of the household, you have various responsibilities towards your wife as well as your children as outlined in their publications as follows:

*** be study 31 p. 191 Respect Shown to Others ***Respect also involves acknowledging headship. In some places it is necessary to speak to the head of the house before witnessing to others in the household. Although our commission to preach and teach comes from Jehovah, we recognize that parents are the ones authorized by God to train, discipline, and direct their children. (Eph. 6:1-4) Hence, when calling at a home, it is usually appropriate to speak first to the parents before engaging children in any extended discussion.

Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1 pp. 814-815 Father FATHER

The Hebrew word ´av, translated "father," is a mimetic (imitative) word taken from the first and simplest sounds of infant lips. The Hebrew ´av and the Greek pa·ter´ are both used in various senses: as begetter, or progenitor, of an individual (Pr 23:22; Zec 13:3; Lu 1:67), the head of a household or ancestral family (Ge 24:40; Ex 6:14), an ancestor (Ge 28:13; Joh 8:53), a founder of a nation (Mt 3:9), a founder of a class or profession (Ge 4:20, 21), a protector (Job 29:16; Ps 68:5), the source of something (Job 38:28), and a term of respect (2Ki 5:13; Ac 7:2).

Jehovah God as Creator is called Father. (Isa 64:8; compare Ac 17:28, 29.) He is also the Father of spirit-begotten Christians, the Aramaic term ´Ab·ba´´ being used as an expression of respect and of close filial relationship. (Ro 8:15; see ABBA.) All who express faith with a hope of everlasting life can address God as Father. (Mt 6:9) Jesus Christ, the Messiah, because of being God?s Chief Agent of life, was prophetically called Eternal Father. (Isa 9:6) Also, anyone who has imitators and followers, or those who exhibit his qualities, is regarded as a father to them. (Mt 5:44, 45; Ro 4:11, 12) In this sense the Devil is spoken of as a father.?Joh 8:44; compare Ge 3:15.

Applying "father" to men as a formalistic or religious title was forbidden by Jesus. (Mt 23:9) Because of Paul?s bringing the good news to certain Christians and nourishing them spiritually he was like a father to them, but in no scripture is "father" applied to him as a religious title. (1Co 4:14, 15) Paul likened himself to both a father and a mother in his relation to the Thessalonian Christians. (1Th 2:7, 11) Whereas reference is made at Luke 16:24, 30 to "father Abraham," this is basically in the sense of fleshly ancestry.

Father?s

Authority and Responsibilities. As described in the Bible, the father was the head of the household, being guardian, protector, the one making final decisions, and the judge of the family group. (1Co 11:3; Ge 31:32) Among the patriarchs and in Israel before the selection of the Levitical priesthood, the father took the lead in representing his family in worship as a priest. (Ge 12:8; Job 1:5; Ex 19:22) The father had authority over his household until his death. If the son married and set up an independent household, then he became head over it, although due respect was still shown toward the father. When a daughter married, she came under the headship of her husband. (Nu 30:3-8) In Bible times the father usually arranged for the marriage of his children. If he came into dire financial straits, he could sell his daughter into slavery, with certain restrictions for her protection.?Ex 21:7.

Fatherly

Concern for the Family Members. As God?s representative, the father is responsible to see that God?s principles are taught to his household. (Ge 18:19; Eph 6:4; De 6:6, 7) His teaching and disciplinary duties also include personal instructions and commands, which the mother assists in carrying out. (Pr 1:8; 6:20) The God-fearing father has great love for his children and exhorts and consoles them with great tenderness. (1Th 2:11; Ho 11:3) So that they might walk in the right way, he disciplines, corrects, and reproves them. (Heb 12:9; Pr 3:12) He finds pleasure in his sons, and especially does he rejoice when they display wisdom. (Pr 10:1) On the other hand, he is deeply grieved and vexed by a course of stupidity on the part of his children. (Pr 17:21, 25) He is to be compassionate and merciful. (Mal 3:17; Ps 103:13) He is to be considerate of their needs and requests. (Mt 7:9-11) A pattern for human fathers is provided in the many descriptions of God?s love and care for his people.

***

it-1 p. 807 Family ***

Structure

and Conservation of Family. In ancient Hebrew society the family was the basic unit. The family was a small government; the father as head was responsible to God, and the mother was the subordinate manager over the children in the household. (Ac 2:29; Heb 7:4) The family was, in a small way, a reflection of the grand family of God. God is represented in the Bible as a husband, with the "Jerusalem above" as the mother of his children.?Ga 4:26; compare Isa 54:5.

*** it-1 pp. 682-683 Education ***

In

Patriarchal Society. Throughout the entire Bible the family is the basic unit for imparting education. In earliest society the father was the head of the family and of the household, which might even be a large community, such as that of Abraham. The family head was responsible for the education of his household. (Ge 18:19)

***

w88 11/1 pp. 20-25 When Marital Peace Is Threatened ***

When

Marital Peace Is Threatened

"A wife should not depart from her husband; . . . and a husband should not leave his wife."?1 CORINTHIANS 7:10, 11.

JEHOVAH GOD united the first human pair in wedlock and purposed that this one-flesh bond should last. It was to be a blessed union that would result in their happiness and in the producing of righteous offspring, all to God?s glory.?Genesis 1:27, 28; 2:24.

8

Stress is laid on preserving a marriage even if only one mate is a believer. Paul wrote: "If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; and a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. . . . But if the unbelieving one proceeds to depart, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not in servitude under such circumstances, but God has called you to peace. For, wife, how do you know but that you will save your husband? Or, husband, how do you know but that you will save your wife?" (1 Corinthians 7:12-16) If the unbeliever chooses to depart, the Christian will let him go. But the believer, hoping that the unbeliever may be won over to Christianity, will not initiate the breakup. Timothy?s mother, Eunice, apparently stayed with her unbelieving husband but imparted spiritual instruction to her son.?2 Timothy 1:5; 3:14, 15.

Grounds

for Separation

9

Paul?s words at 1 Corinthians 7:10-16 encourage marriage mates to stay together. Yet, some, after trying very hard to preserve their marriage relationship, have finally decided that, in all conscience, they have no choice but to separate. What may be the grounds for such a step?

10

Willful nonsupport is one basis for separation....

11 Extreme physical abuse is another basis for separation. ...

12 Absolute endangerment of spirituality also provides a basis for separation. The believer in a religiously divided home should do everything possible to take advantage of God?s spiritual provisions. But separation is allowable if an unbelieving mate?s opposition (perhaps including physical restraint) makes it genuinely impossible to pursue true worship and actually imperils the believer?s spirituality. Yet, what if a very unhealthy spiritual state exists where both mates are believers? The elders should render assistance, but especially should the baptized husband work diligently to remedy the situation. Of course, if a baptized marriage partner acts like an apostate and tries to prevent his mate from serving Jehovah, the elders should handle matters according to the Scriptures. If disfellowshipping takes place in a case involving absolute endangerment of spirituality, willful nonsupport, or extreme physical abuse, the faithful Christian who seeks a legal separation would not be going against Paul?s counsel about taking a believer to court.?1 Corinthians 6:1-8.

Work

to Resolve Problems

17

Displaying wisdom in connection with material things can contribute to marital peace. To illustrate: After considering his wife?s negative viewpoint, a man may decide, nevertheless, that it is wise for his family to move elsewhere. This may seem advisable for economic reasons, but it may also enable the family to advance Kingdom interests by serving where the need is greater. (Matthew 6:33) His Christian wife may not favor the move because she would be leaving behind her parents or familiar surroundings. But she will be wise to cooperate fully with her husband, who is the head of the household and has the responsibility of determining where his family will live. Moreover, her submissiveness and loving cooperation will contribute to domestic peace.?Ephesians 5:21-24.

19

Properly exercised headship will strengthen marital ties. Of course, the mature Christian husband will not be a dictator. Rather, ?he will keep on loving his wife and will not be bitterly angry with her.? Jehovah expects him to exercise loving headship. (Colossians 3:18, 19) In turn, such headship promotes family peace.

In

Divided Households

20

Being reasonable aids in resolving marital problems between Christian mates. (Philippians 4:5) But reasonableness is also important if peace is threatened in a religiously divided household. If an unbelieving husband tries to prevent his Christian wife from serving Jehovah, she may endeavor to reason with him, tactfully pointing out that she accords him religious freedom and she should logically receive similar treatment. (Matthew 7:12) Though she is to be in relative subjection to her unbelieving husband, God?s will must be done where there is a conflict. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Acts 5:29) Surely, attending Christian meetings three times a week is not excessive. But the believing wife may find it wise to be at home on other evenings and to schedule much of her field ministry during hours when her husband is working and the children are in school. With reasonableness and good planning, she need not "give up in doing what is fine."?Galatians 6:9.

21

Reasonableness extends to other matters too. For example, a person has a right to practice a certain religion. But it would be reasonable and wise for a Christian wife not to place her Bibles and Bible study aids where a strongly opposed husband might object. Conflict may be avoided if such publications are kept among her personal effects and she studies them privately. Of course, she must not compromise on righteous principles.?Matthew 10:16.

22

If disruption of domestic peace centers on religious instruction of the children, the believing wife can tactfully arrange to have them accompany her to meetings and in the field ministry. But if the unbelieving husband and father prevents this, she can teach the children Bible principles so that when they grow up and leave home, they are likely to pursue true worship.

Maintain Peace as a United Family

23

Since marriage partners are "one flesh," they should live together in peace according to God?s arrangement for married people, especially if both mates are Christians. (Matthew 19:5; 1 Corinthians 7:3-5) But if marital peace is threatened in your case, prayerfully review the foregoing Scriptural points. It may also be helpful to think back to the time of your courtship. How hard both of you tried to do what was right and lay the basis for a happy union! Will you now make similar efforts to hold your marriage together?

[Study Questions]

19. Headship of what kind will promote family peace?

20, 21. How may reasonableness prove beneficial when peace is threatened in a religiously divided household?

22. What might be done if disruption of domestic peace centers on the religious instruction of the children?

23. If marital peace is threatened, what may prove helpful?

*** w80 11/15 p. 29 By What System Is Your Family Governed? ***

Are we to conclude that absolute authority is vested in the hands of the husband and that he can do just what he likes? No, that is not what the Bible teaches. It does say that the husband is head of the household. (Eph. 5:22, 23)

*** w80 11/15 p. 29 By What System Is Your Family Governed? ***

In modern society, subjection is distasteful to many women, but a balanced view can change this. The one in authority has greater responsibility, and consequently more problems, than the one in subjection.

*** w67 2/1 pp. 67-68 Men Who Really Are Head of the House ***

Men Who Really Are Head of the House

"A HUSBAND is head of his wife," the Bible explains. (Eph. 5:23) Yet, according to reports of social scientists and wives themselves, many modern-day husbands have abdicated their rightful position as head of the house.

The failure of many men to exercise proper headship is clearly responsible for a large portion of today?s marital problems. What, therefore, is involved in being a proper head of the house? What role should the husband assume in the family? How should he treat his wife?

Some men interpret headship to mean that they should be dictators to their wives. In fact, it has long been the practice in some places for husbands to treat their wives as slaves or worse. But this is not in harmony with the above Scriptural principle, for notice that it says: "A husband is head of his wife as the Christ also is head of the congregation." And Christ definitely did not treat his congregation of followers in an unloving manner!

So men who really are the head of the house are not dictatorial bosses. Yet, on the other hand, neither are they weak and irresolute, allowing their wives to assume the role that is rightfully theirs. A proper head is, as Webster?s New Third International Dictionary describes, "one who stands in relation to others somewhat as the head does to other members of the body . . . one in charge of a division or department." Thus, as the physical head directs the movements and operations of the body, or the head one of a department supervises the organization and work of his staff, so the head of the house should assume charge of the household, having jurisdiction over its activities.

The situation is similar in a home. If a man turns over leadership and all decision-making to his wife, she quickly loses respect for him as her head. A man that says, "Go ask your mother," whenever the children ask permission to do something; or, "You decide," whenever a family decision has to be made, reveals that he is not really the head of the house. And such a home is generally an unhappy one.

What, then, does proper headship involve? Does it mean making all decisions? Does it include directing every activity and movement of one?s wife and children? Not at all! God created humans, including wives and children, to enjoy relative freedom. People are discontent and rebel when their every move and moment of time is directed and scheduled for them.

So proper headship is not a matter of making every decision, but of exercising oversight of all the activities and business of one?s family. It is the man?s responsibility to set the guidelines according to which the household is run. Yet, at the same time, there can be a great latitude of freedom within the bounds set.

*** w01 11/15 p. 31 Noah?s Faith Condemns the World ***

As the family head, Noah gladly devoted time and loving attention to his household. This included caring for the spiritual interests of his wife, his three sons, and his daughters-in-law.

CYP - Could you ask to be afforded the same courtesy?

Does your wife know the following? If her parents or siblings are not JW, she might feel unable to attend their funeral service...

*** w70 3/15 pp. 191-192 Questions from Readers ***

? May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations??C. S., U.S.A.

Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate. But before doing so each one should consider the various factors involved and the possible alternatives. While doing so is not forbidden by the Christian congregation, such a course is certainly fraught with dangers and problems.

First of all, it is well to remember that a church funeral is not held primarily to afford friends an opportunity to console the bereaved family. Usually that is done in the funeral parlor beforehand or by visiting the family in their home. The church funeral is really a religious service. It therefore is likely to involve a sermon advocating such unscriptural ideas as the immortality of the soul and that all good people go to heaven. It may also involve unscriptural practices such as making the sign of the cross and most likely the joining in united prayer with a priest or minister of another religion. Of course, a Christian could not take part in such, in view of the command at Revelation 18:4.

Some dedicated Christians have attended church funerals because they wanted to stay close to the immediate family and support them. So they went to the funeral parlor, to the church funeral and then even to the grave. They might have been able to do all that without personally committing any false religious act. There are, of course, spiritual hazards in going to any place of false worship.

True, a Christian wife whose husband is an unbeliever and who wants her to attend a church funeral might look to the example of Naaman. He was the Syrian general who was cured of leprosy by bathing himself seven times in the Jordan River at the command of the prophet Elisha. Because of this miraculous cure Naaman was determined never to worship any other god than Jehovah. But that would be a hard thing for him to do because he was still in the service of his king. He helped the king get around and so would have to go with him into the house of the pagan god Rimmon. He might even have to help the king bow down. So he asked that Jehovah God forgive him and not hold this against him. Naaman, who had become a true worshiper of Jehovah, was not himself worshiping this false god; he was only there under orders.?2 Ki. 5:1-19.

And so with the Christian wife who has an unbelieving husband. If her husband insisted that on a certain occasion she go with him to a church funeral of a relative or family friend she might feel that she could act in a way similar to that in which Naaman did?be present on that occasion but not share in any acts of false religion. But whether she went would be up to her to decide. She would have to resolve the conflict between respect for her husband?s wishes and obedience to Jehovah and the dictates of her conscience, trained by God?s Word.?1 Pet. 3:16.

Yes, her conscience would be involved. Why? Because others might see her, one of Jehovah?s witnesses, entering the church, and they might be stumbled. She would therefore have to consider that possibility. As the apostle Paul wrote: "Make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ."?Phil. 1:10.

Better it would be if such a wife tried to explain her position to her husband. She would do well to pick a time when he was relaxed and in a good frame of mind, taking a lesson from Queen Esther, and then tactfully try to explain why she felt she could not attend such a church funeral. Among other things, she could point out that if she attended and did not take part in the ritual it might be very embarrassing to others, and especially to her husband. So an unbelieving husband might agree, out of love for his wife, respect for her religious scruples and a desire to avoid embarrassment.?Esther 5:1-8.

But might one offend the bereaved family by not attending? Only if one ignored the death entirely. One would not need to do that. A person could do things to show that he was sympathetic and interested in helping. He could go to the funeral parlor beforehand, express condolences to the family and offer practical help. A person could bring over food if need be, or cook a meal there for the family, or watch the children, relieving the adults of that responsibility temporarily. Then the family would not think that the person was unloving just because he did not attend the church funeral.

Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided. But each one must decide for oneself on the basis of circumstances and one?s own conscience.

CYP - I hope these give some insight into the teachings of this group and an idea of what your wife might be embracing.

606

This is about out beloved Dansk

by mouthy in

how sorry i was to hear from dansk-he is going through a very difficult time.. i would like all prayers, thoughts, please keep this in mind ____ for me!!!!.

the sad news he has cancer.it is lymphoma!!!

they are waiting on the results of the biopsy before determining treatment..... he didnt want me to say anything at first- as he feels you all have your own problems & he didnt want to upset anyone-because he says "they are dear friends".

ChristianObserver

{{{Ian and Claire}}}

24

Issues with claiming to be TFDS

by Check_Your_Premises in

i submit the following for your thoughts and comments.

making the claim.

the single most significant problem i have with the jw doctrine, is that they claim that god chose them to be his earthly organization, to the exclusion of all others.

ChristianObserver

What has always puzzled me is how anyone/any organisation which believes itself to be 'discreet' could then go on to proclaim that it actually is 'discreet'.

The very claim of being 'discreet' in fact runs counter to being 'discreet'. Being 'discreet' precludes you from boasting about being 'discreet'.

The following passages reveal much:

***

w71 12/15 p. 761 A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation ***

Thus, too, even though there were no apostles of Christ on hand in the nineteenth century, God?s holy spirit must [???] have been operative toward the formation of the governing body for his anointed remnant of the "faithful and discreet slave" class. The facts speak for themselves [???]. There came on the scene a body of anointed Christians who accepted [???] and undertook [???] the responsibilities of governing the affairs [???] of Jehovah?s dedicated, baptized, anointed people who were following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ and endeavoring to fulfill the work stated in Jesus? prophecy at Matthew 24:45-47. Facts speak louder than words [???]. The governing body is there [??????????????].

***

w56 11/15 p. 692 Faithful Stewardship ***

FAITHFUL

AND DISCREET SLAVE

12

Jesus said: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matt. 24:45-47, NW) Those belonging to Jehovah?s organization know [???] that the "faithful and discreet slave" is a class made up of the faithful remnant of God?s anointed ones, gathered now in one company and working together under the direction and authority of the governing body of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Readers not yet associated with Jehovah?s witnesses may have a little hesitation in accepting this statement, but the manifestation of Jehovah?s blessing upon the activities of this class of anointed Christians will certainly aid you to appreciate the truth of it and will surely cause any doubts or misgivings to disappear. As a result it will bring happiness to you, because you will be helped to see that the Most High God, Jehovah, is now dealing with his people and his blessing is with them.***

Surely, any who profess to have a future where they co-rule with Jesus in heaven over 'the other sheep class' may wish to re-consider the New Testament teachings of the first and last - the greatest and the least.

14

JW's were allowed to take blood at one time?

by ithinkisee in

http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/da.htm

in this disassociation letter example it says the following:.

"at one time, all blood products were unacceptable.

ChristianObserver

Have you visited www.ajwrb.org ? If not, it is worth a visit. If you click on the History button near the top of the page, you will find 3 articles there which are very informative.

1925 - The man who frequently donates blood for transfusion is commended. (Golden Age, 7/29, p. 683, #52).

1940 - Report of a doctor donating a quart of his own blood during an emergency. It was portrayed as heroic (Consolation, 12/25, p. 19, #53).

117

Vigil for my daughter, please.

by outnfree in

as mentioned in my other thread, my daughter lena is having brainsurgery on monday, jan 24. the surgery will last 6-7 hours, so i'm hoping the board members will be willing to make a special effort tomorrow to send positive thoughts, healing energy, good wishes and prayers her way.

we are asking that the surgeon's hands be delicate and skillful and that lena does not bleed overmuch and that brain damage be minimal (if not non-existant).

surgery begins at 8 am eastern standard time (us), but we have to have her to the hospital by 6 am, so this is "good night!

ChristianObserver

So happy for you all. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

117

Vigil for my daughter, please.

by outnfree in

as mentioned in my other thread, my daughter lena is having brainsurgery on monday, jan 24. the surgery will last 6-7 hours, so i'm hoping the board members will be willing to make a special effort tomorrow to send positive thoughts, healing energy, good wishes and prayers her way.

we are asking that the surgeon's hands be delicate and skillful and that lena does not bleed overmuch and that brain damage be minimal (if not non-existant).

surgery begins at 8 am eastern standard time (us), but we have to have her to the hospital by 6 am, so this is "good night!

ChristianObserver

Thinking of you!

106

Just got back from the 2004-2005 circuit assembly here are a few thoughts.

by PaNiCAtTaCk in

jw
friends

upon arriving i ran into lots of old friends and really enjoyed seeing everyone and visiting.

they dont know that im currently struggling with doubts about the organization and they think that im the same old zealous brother.

i couldnt help but feel a sence of guilt visiting with them about our current number of publishers and how many we had pioneering ect.

ChristianObserver

PaNiCAtTtaCk wrote: The district overseer said that he was visiting with a man at the door and he read some books from the society and that they were college level quality. He said that we were getting thousands of dollars worth of education for free and come to find out this man had been the HEAD MAN AT OXFORD UNIVERSITY.

(everyone in the audience gasped with excitment at this point)

Something that I left out was the fact that this man was interested to know if our organization had any schools. So of course he said YES! We have the theocratic ministry school and he wanted to see the book we study at this school so they brought him one back. After reading the theocratic ministry school guidbook and a few magazines the man said that our publications were on a college level and that we were getting a college education that would have costed thousands of dollars for free.

"Thousands of dollars of education" is not a statement that would generally be made either as it is not meaningful to the British due to the differences between University education funding in the UK and the US.

Earnest, this may generally be true of the Cambridge Colleges (though King's has a Provost and Queens' has a President, for example), but at Oxford, the "head' person of the college is variously titled President, Provost, Principal, Warden or Master.

.... and a bursar who is "head man" of the students in that college.

I would have said that the bursar is in charge of the finances, not the students in the college.

Oxford University, England, is a collegiate university with 39 self-governing colleges related to the University in something akin to a federal system.

The current Chancellor of the University is the Rt Hon Chris Patten (a Roman Catholic) who was appointed following the death of the Rt Hon Lord Jenkins (a liberal humanist) - both highly educated men.

I am at a loss to know who could have been meant by the "Head Man at Oxford University' and after a review of the magazines I would suggest that they are in a similar league to Readers' Digest magazines rather than the academic offerings of a respected University.

Oxford University is held to be one of the best universities in England and the world, although latest reports place it only 10th of the world's top 50 universities,

If the DO is faithfully reporting a conversation, then maybe Oxford has slipped further down the league tables than we have been led to believe ;)

On the other hand, each college has a Head Porter whose duties are not of an academic nature............