Posts by ChrisVance

Wow, I read those _____ magazines without realizing what I had just read also. However, I still read for pleasure. I loved Time, US News, and Newsweek. I also read the classics and many other novels. Maybe that's why I stayed a dub until I was 42.

37

leaving

by Lo-ru-hamah in

jw
friends

to those of you that have been jw's for many years... i would like to know how it is that you have transferred to your new life.

my family and i are in the process, actually, we have left because of many of the issues brought up on this forum.

this, being jw's, is all that we have ever known.

ChrisVance

no trinity, paradise earth, no blood, Jehovah God. ... Do others of you still believe in the fundamentals as well?

I still believe 2 of five fundamentals you mentioned.

I believe there's no hell and no trinity, but I don't believe in a paradise earth, I don't believe blood transfusions are bad, and I don't believe that there's such a things as Jehovah God.

Being gay my journey is probably very different from yours, but I wish you quick recovery from the cult.

3

mormons

by ChrisVance in

jw
friends

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid21502.asp gay-straight alliance approved at utah's provo high .

the club received approval last week, superintendent randy merrill said.. .

at least one district board member questions whether such clubs should be allowed.

ChrisVance

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid21502.asp

Gay-Straight alliance approved at Utah's Provo High

The Provo City School District is considering a new policy on school clubs following approval of a Gay-Straight Alliance club at Provo High School in Utah. The club received approval last week, Superintendent Randy Merrill said.

At least one district board member questions whether such clubs should be allowed. Merrill said Principal Sam Ray's questions about whether state and federal law allowed the clubs prompted the district to draft a policy similar to that in the Granite School District.

It would require anyone who wants to form a club to apply to the district. Parental consent would be required for noncurricular clubs. The policy would not allow a club "deemed vulgar and/or lewd and therefore is inconsistent with the fundamental values of public education" or that "could subject students to harassment or persecution." A club application could be denied to "maintain boundaries of social appropriate behavior."

"We did not have a district policy on clubs, so because of that we decided to find out what state guidelines were, talk to other districts, to get a policy together," said Greg Hudnall, director of student services.

The proposed policy cites state law that allows school districts to prevent the formation of clubs that "involve human sexuality." The policy also would prevent clubs that "advocate or approve sexual activity outside of marriage, or involve presentations in violation of laws or regulations governing sex education or privacy rights of individuals or families."

Merrill said nothing in the proposed policy would prevent the Provo High club from forming, because the federal Equal Access Act allows such groups. The act requires schools that receive federal funding and allow noncurricular groups to treat all noncurricular clubs equally.

Board of Education Vice President Sandy Packard said she thinks the policy would disallow the club. She said she hoped to get some legal clarification because while state law does not appear to allow the club, the Equal Access Act protects it. "According to those parts of the policy which reflect state law, it doesn't seem to me that according to policy we should be allowing gay clubs. We can't comply with both. It's a catch-22. I don't see how the federal and state laws are compatible," she said.

Valerie Larabee, executive director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center of Utah, said Gay-Straight Alliance clubs provide needed dialogue between gay and straight students. "These kids are not advocating for sexual activity," she said. "They are coming together as kids that have common concerns and common beliefs."

She said the clubs are a forum to discuss acceptance. "What they are mostly concerned about is harassment and discrimination in schools," she said. "They are a place where the kids can come together and talk about being safe in schools. They're kids, and they're concerned about how to educate other kids about not harassing and discriminating against people because they're different."

Provo High senior Kashi Medford, one of the students leading the effort to form the club, said, "We have actually a lot of sexual harassment in the school that you really don't notice until you sit down and think about it, "It's not (the administration of) Provo High's fault. They're doing everything they can. It's just like commentary made by people. It's a lot of things you hear in the classrooms, locker rooms."

The Salt Lake City School District banned all clubs in 1995 to prevent a gay-straight alliance from forming at East High School. After lawsuits and student protests, the district reversed its decision and returned clubs to schools. (AP)

I find this article interesting for two reasons. First, at bad as the policies of the dubs are, at least they don't directly tell non-dubs what they can and can't do.

Secondly, I attended college at Arizona State College. There were a lot of mormons in my classes and they were the only students who ever made homo-phobic remarks. Like being a dub, being a mormon means hating gay people.

105

How do you defend your god's inaction?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

this is a question for those that believe in a god or gods, particularly those described as "all knowing" or "almighty".. how do you defend to yourself that your god has not in any modern situation saved his people from anything?.

people of all faiths are regularly killed by various natural elements.

of course, if you knew such a thing was going to befall a person and you could do something to protect them, you would.

ChrisVance

Your next-door neighbour is shooting vermin on his property and you and your family find it disturbing. You ask him to refrain, but he doesn't.
You have a gun, and threaten him with it, but still he doesn't desist.
Do you restrict his free-will by blowing him away?

According the the bible that is what god has done many times and will do in the future. But the not the point, is it? To answer your question, no, I don't. However, I'm not all knowing and all powerful. If your gawd isn't all knowing and all powerful, is he gawd or is he human? Or is he somehwere in between? What's so cool for believers in gawd is that they think they can define him. And man created god his image. He created him just so. And man saw the god was to his liking. Afterall, he created him.

105

How do you defend your god's inaction?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

this is a question for those that believe in a god or gods, particularly those described as "all knowing" or "almighty".. how do you defend to yourself that your god has not in any modern situation saved his people from anything?.

people of all faiths are regularly killed by various natural elements.

of course, if you knew such a thing was going to befall a person and you could do something to protect them, you would.

ChrisVance

Further, why is it ok for an atheist or deist to say "sh!t happens", but not for a theist? Seems a bit like dual standards, to me.

Wow what a twisted piece of logic. You have no problem with the dual standard that a dad should protect his son when it's in his power to do so, but gawd doesn't have to protect anyone when it's in his power to do so.

105

How do you defend your god's inaction?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

this is a question for those that believe in a god or gods, particularly those described as "all knowing" or "almighty".. how do you defend to yourself that your god has not in any modern situation saved his people from anything?.

people of all faiths are regularly killed by various natural elements.

of course, if you knew such a thing was going to befall a person and you could do something to protect them, you would.

ChrisVance

Jehovah HAS done something about it. He has put a plan into motion and it will come true.

If you believe that one, I've got some oceanfront in Kansas I'll sell you real cheap.

22

I wasn't even my choice...should it count?

by findingmyway in

i can't help thinking that if i had never gotten baptized out of loyalty and fear of disappointing my parents (and fear of having my flesh eaten by birds of prey after being destroyed in armageddon), i would not be in this situation.

i have several family members and former friends who were raised as jws, but never got baptized, and they never have to experience the angst and pain that i have to experience.

i was baptized and never dedicated my life.

ChrisVance

knot4me, thanks. When I left the dubs I had no idea there were so many straight people who don't hate gay people. There definitely are some stinkers, but it seems like there are a lot of people who accept us the way we are. The fds sure tells a lot of lies about gay people. Thank goodness there're just lies. Thanks again.

22

I wasn't even my choice...should it count?

by findingmyway in

i can't help thinking that if i had never gotten baptized out of loyalty and fear of disappointing my parents (and fear of having my flesh eaten by birds of prey after being destroyed in armageddon), i would not be in this situation.

i have several family members and former friends who were raised as jws, but never got baptized, and they never have to experience the angst and pain that i have to experience.

i was baptized and never dedicated my life.

ChrisVance

I was baptized at age 12 also. Even if I hadn't been been baptized I think my family would shun me, since the dubs hate gay people so much.