Posts by circare

92

Reflections

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

circare

This is such an interesting discussion and has covered a number of good points. It has stirred my grey cells to think of things from different angles and has mentioned issues that I currently 'struggle' with. I wish I had the time to respond to the many things mentioned and I thank everyone for their comments and good thoughts that have allowed this discussion to develop.

However the point Path mentioned about bringing up children without the 'truth' is a point very close to home for me at present. I am in this position and I am worried about this. My husband and I have been unable to give our children any direction or purpose in their lives and I feel that this is a very sad thing. They are nice principled young people but….. we have managed to teach them how to look at things 'with their eyes open' and 'read between the lines' so that now they are able to see hypocrisy. The trouble is that they have become cynical and have little purpose or direction in their outlook.

While my husband adamantly does not want them to give their life over to an organisation,(and up until now neither have I), now I am not so sure. I sometimes think that to believe in something that gives a purpose, direction and usefulness in life may be better than a 'nothingness'. I look at their cousins and other relatives that are 'busy in the truth' and they are happy people using their time to help others, and going to bed at night with the belief and satisfaction that they are using their life in a purposeful and meaningful way. I would have liked to have given my children a 'gift' like this. In our effort to help them to not 'live a lie' we have also 'robbed' them of some good things too.

How I wish I had some of the 'precious things' that my parents gave me as I was growing up 'in the truth' to give to my children. I have no idea what to give in place of these.

Perhaps this is too far off topic and I should have posted a different thread? Sorry if I have interrupted another line of thought you were all developing here.

7

To those I love-still asleep

by Seven in

if i listen long enough to you.

i'll find a way to believe that it's all true.

knowing that you lied, straight faced while i cried.

circare

Hi AhHah. My condolences to your Mother, it is surely a hard time for her right now.

For you too AhHah. These particular occasions in life are emotionally exhausting anyway, I think, without the added complication of uncomfortable family relationships. You sound as though you have been doing plenty of positive things to smooth the way for your family to 'cross the bridges' when they are ready; that is about all one can do I guess.

Relationships sure complicate life don't they! Then again I don't think I would like to be on an island alone for too long either. Well perhaps alone with Har….. Whoops better delete that thought!

They say 'times heals all wounds'. Nice to have the company of those on db to help wile away some of that time isn't it?

Edited by - circare on 25 October 2000 2:5:14

7

To those I love-still asleep

by Seven in

if i listen long enough to you.

i'll find a way to believe that it's all true.

knowing that you lied, straight faced while i cried.

circare

You're absolutely right here Path, there are no guarantees for a 'happy outcome'. I am sure we have both seen enough families where things have not worked out very positively.

I hesitate to offer anything more than understanding and sympathy here Path, because you have many times demonstrated in your posts your fine thinking abilities. I don't really think I can offer anything that you could not, or have not, already worked out for yourself. However, because of the emotional involvement, we can sometimes forget or miss something that at any other time we would see obviously. It is for that reason only that I offer these suggestions.

Do not wait for your parents to make the moves. Make sure that there is middle ground for them to meet you on.

To do this you will need to be patient with them and persevere. Continue keeping in touch on a regular basis. Make it very brief each time. Do not get into any discussions about 'the truth'. If it comes up and you can't avoid it, don't tear down the organisation or their beliefs, but find positive things to say about it for their sake, if you can. Always be cheerful and 'upbeat' when in their presence if possible. Show them that your life has not 'gone down the toilet'. Let them see that in other areas of your life you are still reasonable and thinking logically.

Above all show them that you have your christian principals because that is who you are, and that you have no intentions of behaving in any less a way than a fine, upstanding son who loves his family. They need to know that you still respect them and love them, and will not ignore your normal family duties towards them regardless of their behaviour towards you.

Hope I haven't offended by stating the obvious here Path. (My kids accuse me of this all the time.)

Edited by - circare on 25 October 2000 2:2:44

7

To those I love-still asleep

by Seven in

if i listen long enough to you.

i'll find a way to believe that it's all true.

knowing that you lied, straight faced while i cried.

circare

Path. I understand a little of what you're feeling at the moment and I am sorry for your pain. Try not to be too disheartened because the reality is that your family loves you very much. Speaking from the perspective of a parent there is virtually nothing in the world that could sever the love a parent has for their child. As well as that, we have glimpsed a little of your character and personality here on the board and can see that you are a person easy to respect and love. Believe me your parents love you for who you are!

They are just suffering from a great disappointment at this time. It is hard at the moment for them too because for your family this all still new, (it has only been a few months now since you spoke to your Dad, hasn't it?) They haven't really figured out to handle it all yet. They believe that the 'truth' is of great value and will serve you well, and they're disappointed at your rejection of it. They probably feel that because these beliefs are so much a part of who they are that you are rejecting them. Also they may be dealing with a sense of failure, wondering what they have done wrong in bringing you up that has caused this 'lack of faith' and 'falling away'.

On top of that they are suppressing all their instinctive feelings and emotions because they still believe, at this time, that this is what will help you the most. It is going to take some time for them to sort out this out and put everything back into perspective.

For me personally it took my family a while to come to grips with the situation.

15

Israel / Palestine ??

by AhHah in

jw
friends

carmel,.

since you are there, care to let us in on what's the deal?

is it primarlily a religious dispute?

circare

Thanks Carmel for that run-down. It is certainly a very diverse group living in a very small area.

Where would these various groups stand in regard to the issues? Which ones would most likely support the Israeli claims, and which ones would be more likely to swing towards the Palestinians?

I would have thought that the Persian, Ethiopian, Russian, and East. European Jews would have been in support of the Israelis.

I did not expect the summit in Egypt to fail so miserably. I wasn't expecting much progress with conditions at such a 'high temperature', but I was not expecting it to deteriorate so quickly. I hope that you are well and safe.

Do you live or work close to the current fighting?

11

THE CHILDREN

by Frenchy in

okay here is the sequel to 'farther from heaven' suggested by tr.

hey, maybe he was only kidding, too late it's done!.

"i'm sorry, lenore, but i can't remember my name.

circare

Wow!!!!

Very entertaining Frenchy! I second the motion. Encore. Encore.

Reminds a little of the movie '13th Floor'.

15

Israel / Palestine ??

by AhHah in

jw
friends

carmel,.

since you are there, care to let us in on what's the deal?

is it primarlily a religious dispute?

circare

Thanks Zep for directing us to the other interesting sites.

I have been thinking of you daily Carmel, with all the unrest going on, and hoping that you are in no danger. I am glad to read your posts each day.

There is so much I don't understand about the problems in the Middle East area. In reading the stratfor.com site it mentioned the threat internally for the Israelis from their Arab citizenry. Would anyone have the time to explain who the Arab Israelis are?

35

One for the ladies...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

a post on witnet reminded me of this old question from readers in the 1960's.

(and you thought we were sexist .

*** w61 12/15 767-8 questions from readers ***.

circare

'Princess of Clicks' thankyou for providing the link. I will visit the site as you suggest.

35

One for the ladies...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

a post on witnet reminded me of this old question from readers in the 1960's.

(and you thought we were sexist .

*** w61 12/15 767-8 questions from readers ***.

circare

Dear 7,

Again I am in awe of your strength, intelligence and beauty.

You have shown courage in sharing this part of yourself. After the initial shock, I have felt much anger. Why are there those amongst us who must dominate or destroy the things of beauty in this world? I also feel sadness, that you have experienced such pain. If this was perhaps a 'date rape' then you have the hurt from the fact that a measure of trust was given and uncaringly 'tossed into the dirt and trampled on' as well.
I am sorry you received callousness from others, who should have known better, in the aftermath of this traumatic experience.

I am very glad that you have availed yourself of help thru therapy and friendships and that you are healing. How clever of you to seek out the children and spend time with them.

Be assured that your beauty shines clearly here in your posts (and I am sure in all other aspects of your life too).

with much Respect,
circare

36

God and religion etc..............................

by Zep in

the communist world, it may be noted, has one big myth (which we call an illusion, in the vain hope that our superior judgment will make it disappear) it is the time hallowed archetypal dream of a golden age (or paradise), where everything is provided in abundance for everyone, and a great, just, and wise chief rules over a human kindergarten.

this powerful archetype in its infantile form has gripped them, but it will never disappear from the world at the mere sight of our superior points of view.

we even support it by our own childishness, for our western civilisation is in the grip of the same mythology.

circare

Frenchy I want to investigate.