Posts by cnn77

41

Read God's Word the Holy Bible Daily

by Nicodemus in

jw
friends

for decades now, those words have appeared atop one of the watchtower societys buildings in new york city.. that exhortation may never have been more needed by jehovahs people themselves than it is today.

recent posts have asked good questions regarding what can or will sustain individual jehovahs witnesses who do truly love god, but who may be disheartened by various things they have seen in the organization.. it is clear to me that many witnesses spend far more time reading the societys publications than gods word itself.

one reason sometimes given is that the preparation and research has already been done for you, thus making it easier.

cnn77

Nicodemus you wrote:

"The second question asks whether the candidate clearly understands that their baptism identifies them as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Since there can be no disputing that their baptism does so identify them, simply asking them whether they understand that does not strike me as particularly heinous. Perhaps one of our astute ex-Bethelites can shed some more light on this issue. I suspect that there may have been legal reasons for this. I honestly don’t find it as offensive as some do."

A different slant on the issue with the new baptism question has to do with the words "spirit directed". Is it spirit directed? What does that mean? I asked that to an elder and their explanation was:

"Since the Bible was inspired by God's Spirit and since we follow the Bible as an organization we are a spirit-directed organization...."

Is this an acceptable explanation? Or is it a twist and a stretch? Why make the statement which infers that god's spirit is directing the organization? The action is wrong - is it a pull or a push action? I don't know if this jumps out to everyone like it does to me....

If it is a spirit directed organization and the spirt is doing the directing (not the Society's interperetation of the spirit inspired scriptures) then how do we explain the fact that the light needs to get brighter? What doesn't the spirit know?

Ok lets anticipate the answer "it's not a person - its God's active force". Well - if its God's Active Force then God is responsible....Why does God need the light to get brighter? Why doesn't he stop incorrect light from getting through and being published if it is his spirit that is responsible for the words? Surely his credibility is at stake?

Or is it just a phrase?

Please help me understand this correctly.

Thanks

6

For those who still care

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

this is a post to my old friend, farkel, whom i have often argued with over the last three years.

it may apply to those who know me from before, when i defended the watchtower....for about three months.. don't feel sorry for me, old friend.. i am seeing the evidence of our lord in my daily walk with him.

i have seen cancer healed with no explanation from doctors as to how.

cnn77

Farkel,

Spoken like a wonderful gentleman. I wish my first dealing with you had reflected this type of civility and politeness. I fear perhaps I misjudged you.

My apologies and I look forward to speaking with you someday.

Regards,
CNN77

13

fallen angels

by largo in

i was really bored when i found this forum.

i didn't think it that a community of witnesses chatted and carried disscussions on the internet.

how refreshing i though!

cnn77

Largo - I appreciate your sincerity.

Yes, many stories on here are heart breaking aren't they? But just saying the "society is imperfect because it is run by imperfect men" doesn't cut it for me any longer.

At some point one has to stand back and ask the hard questions.....
I came here disgruntled because I spent time in prison for the neutrality issue. I spent years in prison for it. A few of my friends joined the military and were therefore announced as disassociating themselves (that decision was made for them). This even when they joined in non-combat roles or accepted community service.

How about the brothers who have lost their lives over this issue? Read the experiences of WWII, go to the holocaust museum and read the heart breaking stories.....stories the WTBTS is proud of and has made more than 1 video about.

Then we had "new light"!!! Now community service or alternate service is a conscience matter!!! So my friends who followed their conscience were spiritually "stoned". None of them has been automatically reinstated. Why not? If the "new light" reflects Jehovah's thinking (as the society claims) then why are they still shunned? They acted in accordance with the clarified thinking of Jehovah!!

If the brothers and sisters in WWII in Nazi Germany had asked for non-combat roles or for community service instead (in line with the thinking of Jehovah) do you think they might have been allowed the privilege of staying alive?

That's one of the examples of issues I personally had for a while. Then I found a couple of web-sites. And I saw the 607 issue (are you aware of this issue?) - and my mouth hung open. This issue is huge!!! How can you discount it? If the society is wrong and 607 was not the correct date for the destruction of Jerusalem then ALL of the modern day prophecies are incorrect. I researched this question to find out if I could find biblical proof (from the societie's own literature) that the bible supports the 607 date....

What do you think I found? What do you think the consequesnces of being incorrect on theis point are? If they are incorrect on 607 what are the implications?

I leave that for you to draw your own conclusions.

Regards
CNN77

6

Will You Dare to Believe in Yourself?

by FreePeace in

by doug kelley, csl - april 2001. .

"nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside of them was superior to circumstance.

bruce barton, congressman & advertising executive.

cnn77

Ana,

I am truly sorry to hear about your daughter.

My thoughts are with you.

5

6 YEARS AGO TODAY

by Amazing in

jw
friends

31 years ago today i was baptized as a jw at the oakland, california "men of goodwill" district convention.

exactly 6 years ago today, i was forcibly disassociated (at least as far as the rumors go).

spiritually speaking the last 6 years, though only 1/5th of the total time, has been the most enriching and finest growth period of my life.. i owe much to many who have been there at each step of the process.

cnn77

amazing,

as a newbie here I just wanted to express my thanks for the way in which you post things - you do not betray the arrogance of some others I have seen.

Is your story online? I would be interested in learning more.

Thanks

10

Need Help...............

by deceit in

jw
friends

hi all, i have been lurking around this site for quite some time and enjoy reading all the posts.

but now i need some help........ me and my wife have not gone to a meeting for over 5 months now.

my parents are full bore jw's, father is an elder *shiver*.

cnn77

Deceit wrote: "..I want my parents to respect my reasons for not wanting to be part of the WBTS just as I respect them wanting to stay, I know this sounds like it can happen only in a perfect world but I have to try. He mentioned to me once that even if this wasnt the RIGHT religion, its the closest one to it so he's happy to go along with that, typical stuborn temprament *sigh*"

Deceit - I think you might find yourself in a bit of a trick bag:

Even if your parents do want to respect you they will not be a llowed to. In my personal opinion you run a serious risk of being DFed if you are too forceful. It is better just to fade away and then work on just your parents over time.

The risk of being shunned should not be taken lightly... I am sure that others will criticize me for that view point but they probably have a totally different set of circumstances. You have to ascertain what is of greater importance: 1. Proving your point that the WTBS is not the "truth" or 2. not being part of the organization but still being able to socialize with your parents.

whatever choice you make there is a consequence......

10

Need Help...............

by deceit in

jw
friends

hi all, i have been lurking around this site for quite some time and enjoy reading all the posts.

but now i need some help........ me and my wife have not gone to a meeting for over 5 months now.

my parents are full bore jw's, father is an elder *shiver*.

cnn77

Deceit,

The answer you are seeking all depends on what you hope to achieve.....

Do you just want to be left alone to drift away?

Do you want to have the gunslinging match?

Do you want to convince him to leave the JWs?

You need to first figure out what outcome it is you want to achieve.....if you do not know this BEFORE you speak to him then you should rather just avoid the issue of speaking to him.

Please post back your answer and I can try to help with some suggestions.

15

Sincere doubt on the Sovereign issue

by Sincere Inquirer in

jw
friends

this is the first time i post to this forum in order to find new ideas about a doubt that has been torturing me.

no one in my congregation was capable of providing me with a reasonable explanation, and the society did not answered my letter about this sincere doubt of mine.

so, any help will be appreciated!.

cnn77

Messenger wrote:

"The only way to look at this is to reject what religion trys to get you to believe about God and THINK! When you do this you lose the guilt and all the other crap these rightous nuts have thought up. Live each day for all it is worth, help your fellow man to the best of your ability and if God has a greater plan I am sure he will want people like you instead of self rightous, born again, santimonious, God in my corner, turd heads"

Wonderful point. I have personally been through this issue also and have no faith in the rest of "Christian" doctrine as a result. I sat around feeling guilty for years as I thought I had a lack of faith and I lacked appreciation and so I beat myself up over it again and again. Then I posted a similar question on this site and I saw - Iwasn't the only person who couldn't see it.

Sincere Inquirer wrote: "This is the first time I post to this forum in order to find new ideas about a doubt that has been torturing me. "

I know exactly what you are going through SI. I would like to tell you not to beat yourself up over it but I know thats easier said than done because you have likely been in the truth for many years and the "Truth" is now your life......think friends, family, invested time when I say that.

All I can say is that Messenger is correct as I see it. THINKING is what got you into this state of torture. You will start saying that one should not be allowed to think.....I been there. But THINK and start to SEE that your thoughts are correct. If you can accept that your thoughts are correct - because the other stuff truly makes no sense at all then you will no longer feel guilty. Freedom from the guilt associated with doubt has been one of the most wonderful freedoms I have ever had - all in the last month. I would recommend that you take a look at some of the stuff AlanF has written on this very issue. It can be found at http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm

9

Objection by an elder

by cnn77 in

jw
friends

i approached one of the elders with some of my doubts..... i mildly pointed to the fact that the wtbs had been errent in it's prediction of 1975 as well as some of the other "new light" issues.. his response was one which i have heard many times before: "the society is made up of imperfect men.

interestingly, in 99% of cases most witnesses will accept this explanation and feel guilty for questining a their fellowman ( the humaistic side of the organisation is unconscioulsy impressed onto the mid of the questioner).

at least that is how it has worked on me - until recently.. the next time i am fed this line of reasoning i would like to ask the following question: "ok brother elder, i accept that they are not perfect.

cnn77

I approached one of the elders with some of my doubts....

I mildly pointed to the fact that the WTBS had been errent in it's prediction of 1975 as well as some of the other "new light" issues.

His response was one which I have heard many times before: "The society is made up of imperfect men. They are not perfect."

Interestingly, in 99% of cases most witnesses will accept this explanation and feel guilty for questining a their fellowman ( the humaistic side of the organisation is unconscioulsy impressed onto the mid of the questioner). At least that is how it has worked on me - until recently.

The next time I am fed this line of reasoning I would like to ask the following question: "OK Brother Elder, I accept that they are not perfect. But if we both acknowledge that they are NOT perfect why will you punish me severely for trying to follow some ideas not sanctioned by the society? If imperfection is acceptable and I have to make allowances for it why can't you leave me alone?"

Anyone else get the gist of what I am trying to say? Has this cop-out answer by the elders been used on you yet? Anyone have any other ideas how I can answer? AM I treading on thin ice?

45

Organized religion, no religion, agnostic

by cnn77 in

jw
friends

i am new here trying to figure my way around...... i would appreciate it if you could say which of these fits you..... 1. still a jw.

2. if you dont agree with the jw doctrines any longer do you belong to another religious organization now?

3. are still religious and have no religious affiliation.

cnn77

WOW - thanks group. I appreciate your replies. As a newbie here I have to learn all the lingo etc - that was one of the purposes for the exercise.

Some of you asked me to say what I am. Well here ya go:

My personal views tend to be agnostic at this point in time - to explain my definition of that term: It seems logical to me that there is a creator. However I cannot find out anuthing about him/her/it that makes logical sense.

Officially - I am still a member of the " JW religion" and I still atend the occasional meeting when my wife really threatens me with bad things.

Any other questiuons with the exeption of my identity (for obvious reasons - I don't feel like not being able to talk with my family) I will be happy to answer you.

For those of you who answered that you are "religious" and ex-jw - how do you go about find out about God? Please don't just say read the Bible as I find many things in the Bible illogical and full of holes. Any sincere input in this is much appreciated by myself.

Thanks