Posts by hideme

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

hideme

Another thing that might be the case:

everything that is forbidden by Brooklyn, is very easy to find out if someone breaks the rule:

It's easy to find out if someone's smoking. It's easy to see someone celebrating christmas or birthdays. Because it's all on the outside.

So in my opinion it has to do (again!) with control.

They can't tell you what to think (okay, they try!) , at least they can't controil everything you think. If they can't SEE it. they can't punish you.

All those parties are very easy way to find out if someone is a REAL JW or not.

I remember reading this experience on the net about elders checking on a family on christmas - and yes...there were wrapped gifts...wow, now they could finally disfellowship them!!

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

hideme

It was never mentioned that Jesus or the apostles ever 'used the bathroom'.

The only persons mentioned in the bible doing 'something' (went to stool?) were Eglon (bad man!), Saul (Bad man at that time!!)

So I think maybe this means that we just can't use the toilet anymore? It's definitely mentioned in a negative way!

29

I need help refuting a very common and stupid jw argument

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

"if you participate in activity x it will leave less time for spiritual activities"

this i think is a false "or" type of fallacy.

as if our choices are a matter of choosing between non-spiritual or spiritual activities exclusively.

hideme

I think the whole argument hinges on the unstated premise that, "You must devote as much time as is physically possible to spiritual activities."

Read 1 Tim. 5:14 or Tit. 2:4,5 Maybe there are more bible verses like this. Nowhere the bible talks about doing "field service" or "preaching" as a everyday thing. why didn't the bible writers encourage people to preach (instead of having children and working), if that's so important???

5

where in the H-E-L-L is DannyBloem? Dude, you are missed...

by tetrapod.sapien in

jw
friends

his last post was at the end of september.. danny,.

i miss your sharp brainiac ways.

i hope all is well, and you are taking a bite out of the ass of life.

hideme

uh-ooh

He was on another forum too, in his native language. Last visit september 24.

Maybe 'they' talked him back into the Borg??

59

Is the 144,000 persons mentioned in Rev 7:4-8 literal or symbolic

by trem in

i know that this may have been treated before but i still need your valuable suggestions.. rev 7:4 says "and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel", veses 5 to 8 provides additional details that 12,000 were selected from the 12 tribes of israel.

the book of numbers 1: 20-42 lists the following as the 12 tribes of natural israel: reu ben, sim eon, gad, judah, is sachar, zeb ulun, e phraim, manas seh, benjamin, dan, ash er and naph tali.

however, rev 7:5-8 did not list the tribes of ephraim and dan but instead listed 10 approved tribes with 2 non approved tribes of levi and joseph.

hideme

I wonder, too.

WTBST says 144.000 has to be a real number, because the "great multitude, which no man could number " is also "real" (not symbolic)

But then I wonder: The LAMB in the same verses is not a real LAMB, is it? It's symbolic, it's Jesus. The people standing before the throne is not real. The palms are not real. It's all symbolic language. So why...is it that 144.000 MUST be a real number???

"After these things I saw, and behold, , out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;"

22

My youngest son had an interesting question. Are there at this moment more

by avengers in

jw
friends

xjdubbs than jdubbs?.

are there at this moment more xjdubbs than jdubbs?.

are there at this moment more jdubbs than xjdubbs?.

hideme

I have wondered myself about that. Here in The Netherlands we had about 30,000 JWs in 1974. Since then there were over 30,000 new baptized brothers and sisters. And guess what?? We have about 30,000 publishers now. So in 30 years, 30,000 new dubs - and still not one more !! That means, in The Netherlands there are definitely more ex-JW's than JW's. All over the world: in 1973 wordlwide dubs:

1656673

+ since 1973 new baptised :

7753759

makes:

9410432

Of course people die: Maybe that's 10% ?

-941041

Total possible amount of publishers:

8469391

Soooo, there's about 3000000 lost brothers... Oh - and about baptism: In a talk on our last special assembly day the District Overseer said to 8-year old children (they had to raise their hands!) "Did you already ask your father when you can be baptised?" "Eight year old children are NOT too young to make this kind of decisions!" So, when my children now tell me they don't want to go to kingdom hall, and want to celebrate their birthday - what can I say? They are old enough to make this kind of decision!! This brother told us - eight-year old can make his own decision!

50

CHEATING ON FIELD SERVICE

by chuckyy in

towards the end of my time as a jw, i must confess to cheating whilst out on field service.. 1. i would turn up at the field service arrangement with my wife, and we would say that we were working together that day to do return visits.

as everyone went out, we would simply get into our car and drive home.

(hypocritical i know).

hideme

Oh...I seem to be the only one who's cheating the other way around????

My problem is NOT fieldservice: I will go and talk to the housekeepers about the bible. I don't offer them any WTBTS litterature. :)

But I hate it that WTBTS REQUIRES a report on my hours. So in fact - I want to do the preaching, because Jesus said so, but I don't want to fill in any report for an organisation.

Because my husband is afraid the elders will come after me (again LOL) when I don't write down my hours I decided to fill in only 1 hour every month. No litterature, no returnvisits. I don't like them to know anything.

Now the funny thing is: this saturday I went out for service and returnvisits with my bookstudy-overseer and his wife. We "did" two hours. I want to see the look on his face when he will read my 'report" end of the month. One hour? That's impossible?! :)

239

Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

by VM44 in

this is a very important observation, that the watchtower has not tried to explain in print why 607 bce is the year for the destruction of jerusalem for the last 17 years!!!.

all that the watchtower has done over most of the last two decades is to repeat over and over the year "607bce" in its publications as if it is an unquestioned fact!.

the last time an explaination for the year was attempted by the watchtower was in 1988 when the "insight" volumes were published, but since then, no explaination for the validity of the year has appeared in print.. this must mean something, but what?

hideme

Wow ...what a thread!

A few weeks ago (that's how it all started for me) I found out about the UN affair. Then I wondered: what else could be wrong??

Because we're studying the book Daniels Prophecy I wondered in what way the "worldly history" would DISAGREE with the BIBLE. The WTBTS always makes it look like that, and I wanted to prove it myself, this time.

So I made a large timetable , covering over 100 years.(I hadn't read anything about that subject by then!!)

Above the line I put every date and chronology according to WTBTS, and under the line the "worldly history"chronology.

And guess what?

The so-called worldly history IS NOT in disagreement with the BIBLE! In fact - it's more logical than the WTBTS chronology.

WTBTS has found some really strange ways in proving things, like: the third year of Jojachim was in fact the third year "under" Nebuchadnezar. (How do they know that?! The bible doesn't say so!)

I was completely surprised - and no one told me before that 607 wasn't the "worldly"date for the destroying of Jerusalem...so I found out myself! No bad influence that told me so!

For me, the following is imortant: the bible doesn't mention any calendar dates. Only dates related to other dates. So no one can prove anything at all. BUT: that means WTBTS can't prove 587 B.C to be wrong, either - because it is according to the bible.

By the way: Notice the mistake in Daniels book:on page 63 it says Nebuchadnezar started to reign in 624 B.C. On page 64 it says his 4th year was 620 B.C. (because the Babylonians didn't count the first year -that will be okay)

In his 19th year Neb. destroyed Jerusalem. (2.Kings 25 8-10)

If 620 B.C. was his 4th year...what would be his 19th year then??? Definitely not 607 B.C.!

Forgive me any bad translation- I am not english speaking.

15

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 9-25-05 WT Study (Reflect)

by blondie in

(exodus 14:26-31; .

" (exodus 19:1019; .

don't jws who say they are the only true christians want to know christ?

hideme

OOps I am sorry...

I meant to say, the golden calf thing did NOT happen before the situation in Ex. 19 (The Israelites shaking and anxious at the foot of the mountain.)

The watchtower mentions these two different situations, like if it was only one. The one with Moses coming down the mountain was indeed AFTER the golden calf.

By the way, is there any possibility to edit a post here? I hate mis typing (gold caf instead of golden calf) and would like to edit it!

15

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 9-25-05 WT Study (Reflect)

by blondie in

(exodus 14:26-31; .

" (exodus 19:1019; .

don't jws who say they are the only true christians want to know christ?

hideme

Par. 1 Yet, instead of responding with wonderment and appreciation, they

withdrew. "They grew afraid of coming near to [Moses]."

So being afraid means having NO respect???

Par 2: Likely, much of the Israelites' fear on this occasion had to do with what

had happened earlier. When they deliberately disobeyed Jehovah by making a

golden calf, he disciplined them

The gold caf thing DID NOT happen before Moses came down the mountain and had a shiny face.

par 4: Yet, they were

reluctant to gaze intently on the reflection of God's glory. Instead of

turning their hearts and minds toward Jehovah in loving devotion, they in a

sense turned away from him.

That's not true. Read 1 Cor. 3:13 (they never mention this verse in this study!!)

Moses covered his head SO THAT the Israelites would not look.

MOSES made sure they could not look at the shining .

It was'nt them who "turned away"

par 6: In turn, anointed Christians reflect Jehovah's glory in their

ministry of the new covenant, and those of the other sheep do similarly.-2

Corinthians 3: 6,18.

The scripture says ALL OF US reflect Jehovah's glory.

In fact it doesn't Say : Jehovah's Glory, but: THE Glory of The Lord. WTBTS filled in the name Jehovah.