Posts by careful

40

Has Anything Really Changed For JWs In The Last 10 Years?

by minimus in

jw
friends

2020 is days away.

has anything really changed for the witnesses or the religion?

?.

careful

SBF: "What else did I miss?"

Financial woes due to one thing you touched on, the "Print publishing downscaled" but with the detail that previously it had become free to all (= the loss of long, well-established income from printed matter sales), because of the org's fear of taxation (really opening their books to Caesar via tax audits)—that is, if all this is not just another of their PR stunts. There are those broadcasts where GB members claim such financial woes.

Related to the above: the constant pleas for MORE MONEY.

A big one that the GB are so interested in keeping from the R&F:

the child sexual abuse lawsuits/coverups/disgraceful policies

Some of your points were mentioned by others, some were not. Perhaps you didn't want to repeat them? neat blue dog made some good ones which I quote, but in a list format:

the acceptance of Christian rock and other pop styles previously viewed as inappropriate

the overlapping generation being elaborated and cemented

dancing to pop songs in the Hall

putting on Broadway style plays

having red carpet events and other over the top attractions at international conventions

While on the music: the constant reworking of the songbook and new ones dribbling out in electronic release

I must have missed some too...

19

The Craziness of an Average Bible Study

by Number 6 in

last week i posted a thread asking about who knew any "real anointed" and got some cracking replies.. that got me to thinking, as someone brought up in the 70's and 80's in the watchtower religion, my experience of bible studeis in their homes and those who made it to the hall were mostly batshit crazy or at least people with some serious quirks.. i'll relate a few, none of whose names i remember with any clarity.. in our cong we had an older couple who were from london, but who had been in the 1950's in the circuit work in the mid west usa.

they brought along some woman one night they had started a study with who told everyone cheerfully she was a recovering alcoholic and this was her cure (coming to the meetings).

this went on for a few weeks until one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and i mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine.

careful

Number 6: thanks for the story.

"one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and I mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine."

I would either have bust a gut in laughter or killed myself suppressing my desire to do so.

MacHislopp, you mentioned the Brumley info was in the early 90s. Can you please provide more detail as the exact time and location (what court case)? Thanks in advance.

Master's Thesis on Witness CSA

by careful in

i apologize if this has already been shared.

a chap named harvinder singh finished his ma thesis last year at the university of birmingham on csa among jws.

i think this may be the first of such academic works to directly deal with the matter.

careful

I apologize if this has already been shared. A chap named Harvinder Singh finished his MA thesis last year at the University of Birmingham on CSA among JWs. I think this may be the first of such academic works to directly deal with the matter. His stated thesis is not news to anyone here or elsewhere who has kept up on the matter:

"I argue that this religious organisation does not respond or adjust its doctrinal practices of child safeguarding in the face of criticism and recommendations of scholars, the mass media and the secular courts unless legislation requires it."

But what is of greater significance is that he may be beginning a trend among academics to deal with this subject matter, and that would then shine light on the issue and hopefully bring about further influence/pressure for organizational change. He brings in the ARC findings.

You can DLed it here. It's the first of his papers:

https://bham.academia.edu/HarvinderSingh

Clearly English is not Singh's native tongue, so you'll have to work through his sometimes poor language, but he offers enough content to see past that.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

39

Email from JW relative/elder

by Lynnie in

as much as i enjoy you and pete's company, you also know our understanding of how much we want you to be reunited with jehovah and his people.. .

we did not set the standards for what jehovah says about our associations with those who choose to not serve him.

so we will always be there for you and pete, but it is in your hands as to how we can enjoy your friendship.. .

careful

pale.emperor and johnamos:

NICE FINDS—THANKS!

35

Not training speakers/teachers any more?

by eyeslice2 in

jw
friends

not having attended any meetings since about 2001, for reasons of safety (sounds a bit dramatic but i don't like my wife being out on her own late at night where we live now), i have started accompanying her to the mid-week meeting.. when i was young, the ministry school and service meeting were central to training brothers to take the lead.

you were assigned instruction talks, then if you cut it, you moved pretty rapidly to public talks - a full 55 mins at the time.

i was just 18 years old when i gave my first public talk and this was a first step to moving rapidly through the ranks.

careful

Thx, eyeslice2 for the post, and waton for the comment.

"this week's wt study par 10 refers specifically to training sessions in 'field service' not speaker training"

Yeah, TRAINING them to hand out a tract that refers the non-Witness to the org's website. That's a whole lot of "training," eh?

12

When "all" is not "everyone" or "everything."

by Wonderment in

we keep seeing posters bringing col. 1.16 and john 1.3 up as proof that christ is excluded from the creative acts.

the proof they submit is that the words "all things [gk., pánta]" appear in these texts.

however, they are missing this important element from the discussion: the word "all" is rarely used in greek, and even in our everyday language to mean literally "everyone" or "everything" under the sky.

careful

Thx, Wonderment for the post. I was reading Acts recently and noted how the "all" in 3:18 certainly does not mean ALL in an absolute sense. There Peter says, "God foretold by the mouths of all the prophets (πάντων τῶν προφητῶν), that his Christ should suffer ..." Of course, some of the prophets never mention the Messiah at all, and only a few of them speak of his suffering.

As for 1 Tim. 2:4, other factors are likely involved. First, that the plural of πᾶς can indeed mean "all sorts of" is clear from entry number 5 for that word in the 2nd revision by Danker of the Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich NT Greek lexicon (BDAG, p. 784). There are 25 NT examples listed under that definition. 1 Tim. 2:4 is not present but then it is unlikely that the lexicographers meant the entry to be exhaustive. Second, it is likely that Fred Franz was influenced by the earlier context. In verse 1 the writer exhorts Timothy to offer prayers ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀνθρώπων. Does that mean on behalf of all men/people in an absolute sense? Given other statements reflecting Christian doctrines elsewhere in the NT, like 1 John 5:16, Mark 3:29, and probably Matt. 18:17, one must ask whether the author of 1 Tim. wanted Timothy to pray for ALL people in an absolute sense. "All sorts of" here then may make good sense. If that is so, then continuing that thought 3 verses later may be viewed as at work.

BTW, I'm not defending Fred Franz or the NWT per se here. Rather I'm looking at factors not mentioned by Bobcat that may have been in play, beside the WTS's taking the 144,000 in Revelation literally. Furthermore, just because God wants all to be saved, that does not all will, given the free will that humans possess.

29

What does "The disfellowshipping of xyz is now rescinded" mean

by cognitivedizzy in

it has happened somewhere i know.

what is it and what does it mean.

careful

Yes, it is real, whether individual ex-elders here have experienced or heard of it or not. It's done, just like DOC said, when local BOEs and/or appeals committees screw up. It's done from HQ. It means that the DFing never should have happened. It's rare but it occurs. A CO explained it to me back in the 1980s. I know of one case of a high powered elder getting wrongly DFed by his enemies, other high power elders who hated him. The service department at Brooklyn (pre-Patterson/Warwick days) had to step in and rescind the DFing.

It's mentioned in the CO manual for a reason (see SBF's quotation above).

15

2019--16 Leaked Videos!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

1-samuel herd-message to accounts servants.

2-roles and responsibilities.

3-resolutions4-collecting contributions5-contribution boxes and their uses6-balance of congregation funds7-recording bank activity8-recording the s24 to the accounts sheet9-setting up and maintaining a bank account10-balance of congregation funds11-setting up a cash box and a cash box holder12-setting up a cash agreement13-making payments with a bank account14-how to add a user to a congregation domain15-ldc update-201916-walk on your way in safety-local needshttps://we.tl/t-wuega8kvbn .

careful

Thanks, Petra!

7

2019-6-Files-English!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

these are the english files, the german files will be posted on a different thread in about an hour.. 2019-10-01-s-67-instructions for merging congregations2019-10-21-malta campaign letter.

2019-10-21-malta information sheet.

2019-malta application form.

careful

Thx, Petra.

Does anyone else find it odd that the org is planning a big blitz on Malta, asking for Maltese speakers living elsewhere to travel there to participate, and states that there is a "rapidly expanding population" there? What a minute. Have the native Maltese people suddenly become more fertile so that the native population is growing? Isn't the increased population there due to refugees and people escaping from Africa? Why would they speak Maltese?

I smell a rat. Are they afraid if they get non-Maltese need-greaters coming in, that the government will send them packing, but if they get Maltese-speakers coming in, there is more of a chance they will be able to stay? Or has the cong there shrunk so much that they cannot cover their territory? Combining congs? Increasing elderly in them? What's up here?

16

Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

by Anna Marina in

this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

careful

Thx for this post, AM. I can empathize with you since it was only since after I left the org that I came to realize in a fuller manner how difficult it is for intelligent women to be in it. What a trial for you and for other women!

I generally agree that the WT org will not reform. I respect Ray Franz and his efforts, but I do have some disagreements with him. One is that there exists a single possibility for reform: only a massive crisis will ever cause real change in the org. I find it interesting that so far, at least since Rutherford's day, such a thing has not happened to them. Whether it will occur in the future or not, who knows?

Since I lived through the Ray Franz episode as an active Witness, your experience here is also educational for me as an example of someone discovering him after it was over. You did it without coming to forums like this one. That seems unusual.