Posts by careful

13

Sued by inmate, North Carolina concedes Witnesses are distinct faith group, not subset of Protestants

by Corney in

last thursday poyner spruill, a prominent north carolina law firm, announced a victory in a pro bono case involving religious freedom of incarcerated jehovah's witnesses.

the poyner team was appointed by the u.s. district court for the western district of north carolina to represent an inmate challenging the state’s policy governing how and when jehovah’s witnesses can worship in prison.

the state’s policy classified jehovah’s witnesses as a subset of christian protestants and, on that basis, prohibited separate jehovah’s witness meetings—an infringement on religious freedom under the first amendment.

careful

Thanks, Corney. Catholics would qualify with those 7 points too! "Exercise their faith" is exclusively a WTS/NWT term, eh? So if the other side's argument included it, then they must have done so intentionally. You're certainly right that if those other groups got to have separate meetings, JWs should have too. I can't help but wonder what else was up here, maybe some Protestant chaplain wanting to "convert" JWs? Or if the "single person" was Brown, maybe the chaplain was trying to convert him? Or maybe just keep visiting JWs out of the prison? Or maybe it was money? It "would be a tremendous burden on Alexander C.I."

"he must be unconditionally released"—it doesn't sound like Brown is in any position to tell the judiciary what they "must" do. He wouldn't be making any points there. Again, we'll have to see if this merits any mention at JW-DOT-org.

"Wasn't it a great witness?"—hmmmmmmmm.

13

Sued by inmate, North Carolina concedes Witnesses are distinct faith group, not subset of Protestants

by Corney in

last thursday poyner spruill, a prominent north carolina law firm, announced a victory in a pro bono case involving religious freedom of incarcerated jehovah's witnesses.

the poyner team was appointed by the u.s. district court for the western district of north carolina to represent an inmate challenging the state’s policy governing how and when jehovah’s witnesses can worship in prison.

the state’s policy classified jehovah’s witnesses as a subset of christian protestants and, on that basis, prohibited separate jehovah’s witness meetings—an infringement on religious freedom under the first amendment.

careful

Thanks, Corney for the post. The Marshall Lee Brown story seems really bizarre. So if he lives until 102, he can get released!

What were the arguments from the other side? Perhaps that JWs are Protestants because they grew out of the Protestant Reformation, specifically out of Second Adventism, and use a Protestant Bible canon? Or were such theological arguments not important? It will be interesting to see if the organization makes any official announcement about this being a victory for them. It does seem strange that the NC prison admin would not allow JWs to meet separately. It looks like they got what their own stupidity brought on themselves.

After reading the wiki article I saw this: "He will be eligible for parole at age 63." My math must be off...

32

Witnessing Work to Stop?

by Sea Breeze in

my 87 year old dad called me for the first time in 16 years the other day .... just to chat.

i was floored to say the least since he didn't even bother to call me when my mom died several years ago.

he called again today to inquire how i felt about jehovah's witnesses.

careful

BC

It's kind of like if a sane person were sentenced to live in an insane asylum.

Love it!

33

2020 Convention streamed

by Rattigan350 in

2020 convention of jehovah’s witnesses.

we warmly invite you to watch this year’s three-day convention presented by jehovah’s witnesses.

as a result of the novel coronavirus (covid-19) pandemic, this year’s convention program is being presented online at jw.org.

careful

It looks like someone needs to update the website. If you click on the link "Information for Delegates" at https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2020-convention-program/, you get info on paying attention to the attendants when parking, not saving seats, etc., hardly needed for an online program.

I suppose that a good gauge to how well the org monitors this site can be surmised in how soon they change this blunder! Posted at 20.33.39 GMT.

Yes, it's always "the best ever"—yawn. Most of the faithful will probably dress up too. Will they still issue name badges?

16

Rear cover of: “Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Secular World: from the 1870s to the Present”

by Doug Mason in

“jehovah’s witnesses and the secular world: from the 1870s to the present” (histories of the sacred and secular), zoe knox.

palgrave macmillan.

isbn 978-1-137-39604-4. .

careful

Thanks, Corney, for the detailed response. You must have the book! Knox looks quite diligent, and polite/diplomatic. The latter is clear from her "initially cautious" instead "fearful and condemnatory," which would have been more bluntly accurate. I like her "comparatively late."

That Côté article looks worthwhile. I'll read it. I smell Jaracz at work in the Legal Department's (LD) reopening and large growth. It was put out at Patterson, Jaracz's creation and fiefdom The time frame sure fits as does his belligerent personality. Was it him who chose loyal Bethelite Brumley to send to law school and head up the revived LD instead of using one or some of the far more experienced and competent Witness attorneys from outside Bethel?

16

Rear cover of: “Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Secular World: from the 1870s to the Present”

by Doug Mason in

“jehovah’s witnesses and the secular world: from the 1870s to the present” (histories of the sacred and secular), zoe knox.

palgrave macmillan.

isbn 978-1-137-39604-4. .

careful

Thanks DM for the post, and thanks SBF for the podcast link. It seems to me that the interviewer was well prepared rather than having a Witness past. At the end Zoe Knox thanks him for his careful reading of her book. To me his questions all seem to come from that, not any other background.

Three things I wonder about Knox: 1. she said that JWs have been quick to jump on technology and she used the sound cars of Rutherford's time as an example, then the carts of today (she could have used Russell's Photodrama but did not in the interview). Does she realize how they condemned the internet for years, then suddenly did an about face, in other words, what latecomers they have been to this technology?

2. I wonder if she is at all aware of the lack of legal action the org took during the 1970s and 80s. When I was in, the org was afraid to take cases to court. They were afraid they might lose the legal rights they had established under Rutherford and Covington. The Legal Dept. was a shadow of what it has become today. I know of cases where they failed to support individual bros who took personal legal stands based on the org's dictates, and of individual Witness lawyers, and others, who did not like this.

3. Is she aware of the work of people like Jerome and Vienne? When she says that very little work has been done on CT Russell, is she speaking about peer-reviewed academic material only?

16

Why do the Elders stress the importance of meeting attendance....

by Davros in

jw
friends

why do the elders always stress to the rank and file members of the congregation how important meeting attendance is, as well as the importance of always paying attention to every word that's being presented from the slave?

but then, during the meeting, they rarely sit and pay attention themselves to the wonderful spiritual banquet being presented?

they always seem so busy, don't they?

careful

fadeaway is right: CONTROL.

5

Reassessing the Size of Mormons, Adventists and Witnesses (2019 academic paper)

by Corney in

this is one of the most recent academic papers on jw demographics.

it analyzes official membership statistics of the three churches, compares them with census data and provides estimated global figures (9-10 million mormons, 17 million witnesses, and 28 million adventists - all are self-identified adherents, not necessarily active ones).

i think this is a good research though some aspects of the subject remain unexplored.. this article compares the growth of three religious groups, the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, seventh-day adventists, and jehovah’s witnesses.

careful

Welcome back, SBF! Thanks for the share Corney.

22

WTB&TS And The Lawyers They Employ.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i have been thinking about the legal departments that look after the wts interests around the world.i can`t believe these legal eagles offer their services on a voluntary basis like the r&f do.and i don`t believe their services would come cheap.. as an organization the size of jw.org and its offshoots of companys and interests around the world ,the cost of keeping them gainfully employed must amount to a considerable sum of money.. especially the law suits against them with child abuse court cases that arise on a regular basis ,and the government inquiry`s into the jw religion that is happening in different countries now.. all paid for by the voluntary contributions that come from the r&f for the worldwide preaching work .. contributions to pay for the wt organization`s legal department to defend themselves in court ?.

did jesus and the apostles pay lawyers to defend them in a court of law with funds donated by their supporters ?.

careful

Phizzy, please provide the info and sources for the Sweden case! It sounds hot and like something that the org will doubtlessly try to hide...

8

Anyone know of someone doing this or maybe you have done it

by phoenixrising in

anyone ever hear of someone getting dfed in a congregation then moving cross country and joining another jw congregation and not telling them you were dfed.

?.

careful

I knew one well-known elder who used to speak about such a case, where one DFed bro. tried this out. The guy moved a couple thousand miles, faked a second conversion, and got baptized as a worldly convert. Eventually he was busted, most likely because someone who knew him from his old cong spotted him in his long-distance transplanted one. It's good to remember how closed the JW world is, even in large countries. Such a thing is risky given conventions, assemblies, the extended connections many JWs have, traveling overseers, etc.