Posts by careful

27

Demonic art in the watchtower?

by Lost and adrift in

does anybody remember a rumour or maybe it was a truth?

?...something about hidden pictures or symbols in the artwork of the watchtower.

was it one of those urban legends?

careful

Like jookbeard said, Darek Barebook (note the correct spelling of his first name) wrote an entire book on the matter with some convincing evidence, at least in some pictures. The book was entitled "JWs and the Hour of Darkness" but it's out of print now. He argued the hidden images were demonic. He and his entire family (parents, brother, wife, kids) were all DFed over it.

Used copies are expensive now, over $100.

http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/darek-barefoot/

There some Italian ex-JW who runs a website devoted to further examples of the hidden things in the pics since Barefoot's book. Plenty of others have also done so. See this link:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=jehovah+witness+art&as_epq=hidden+images&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

6

My Bethel Experience Part 9

by new boy in

the worst thing, someone could call you at bethel, was a "jack.

" as in "that guy is a real jack, he doesn't work at all".

the other term not used very much anymore, was "pot licker" used basically the same way.

careful

These Bethel experiences are priceless. Keep them coming please. When I need some laughs, I find myself turning to your posts. With four years under your belt there, you must have hundreds more experiences to tell!

30

What are the economics of cart witnessing?

by slimboyfat in

on another thread shepherdless sketched out the past business model of jws and its demise.

until 1990 they were a straightforward publishing business with the tremendous advantage of free labour in production and free distribution agents.

since then they've been relying on donations for literature to keep the old model going.

careful

Wow, too bad for SBF that the posts got so far off track from the OP. I have no idea of how economics is at work with the carts. Perhaps it a non-issue, the real reasons for the carts being as some have stated above: easy time for pioneers, something of a witness to the world without expecting conversions, status-winning for those permitted to man them. Maybe too it is some feeble attempt in the GB's mind to reach out to, or just a give a witness to, all those folks who are not at home when the publishers come around.

In the territory I live in the Witnesses have come around 6 times or more in the past 18 months. They regularly have a cart at the local Walmart too, and I have intentionally tried to strike up a conversation with those manning them, but to no avail. That's what has struck me about those things. Back when I was in, I would have jumped at the chance to grab a potential "Bible study" from someone who would stop by! But no, they don't do that. That strikes me as very strange.

Beth Sarim: "I can't believe that JW's actually count service time by just aimlessly standing there."

Don't you remember putting in plenty of time going from one return visit to another without anyone being home, indeed without any non-JW ever seeing you? Is this so different? At least this way, "you're still giving them a witness, brother", right?

49

Kim and mikeys chanel on YouTube they uploaded a video of more singing and dancing

by Crazyguy in

on their chanel they are showing a video of a special assembly day in belgium i believe.

the jws are dancing dressed in black and red, satanic colores.

singing and playing worldly songs and kingdom melodies.

careful

It seems the R&F are interpreting the GB's widely publicized embracing of electronic technology, the net, and broadcasting in their own ways! Both the "Happy @ Bethel" vid and this one show that. The "don't-ever-think-out-the-consequences-of-our-decisons" mentality of the GB has really come back to bite them in the butt on this one!

22

The new Fred Franz?

by careful in

of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (ray franz quoting karl klein or someone else on the gb back in the days of gb i in cofc somewhere ), but i have to wonder just who on gb ii has come to fill fred franz's shoes the most.

it seems like it is david splane.

he appears to be in charge of the writing department, proposes and pushes thru the gb most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like ff, fancies himself musically inclined.

careful

BB: "The best part of the Fred Franz legacy is that the vast majority of his stuff isn't even considered doctrine anymore." Funny! But do you see what I meant in the OP that Splane hasn't replaced FF's docrines with anything, except once in a great while, for example, with the obscure and strange overlapping generations mystery?

prologos: Just wondering, how does the "The"I am the boss" aura never left D. Splane" jibe with being humble, spiritual, and all that?

22

The new Fred Franz?

by careful in

of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (ray franz quoting karl klein or someone else on the gb back in the days of gb i in cofc somewhere ), but i have to wonder just who on gb ii has come to fill fred franz's shoes the most.

it seems like it is david splane.

he appears to be in charge of the writing department, proposes and pushes thru the gb most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like ff, fancies himself musically inclined.

careful

Wow, such great responses! Thanks very much.

Magnum, your thoughts are choice and much appreciated. Agreed on the history, and the net factors you point out give me plenty of food for thought. Your thoughts on Splane?

OTWO, "We aren't in money trouble, but we are in money trouble." Love it!

SBF: "There's no way in hell Freddy would have come up with the overlapping generations fiasco." Spot on!

Gorby, "Splane sounds like he invented their fables itself." Speaks volumes, eh?

blondie, I once used one of those JW libraries at Wallkill, but the one in the Writing Department that Barbara Anderson has described is the biggie. I imagine that it's still open to WD members. Love your "jws today have been trained to accept dumbed down." So true, so true.

NEJ: "GB today strikes me as a collection of uninspired bureaucrats. They rose through the ranks due to their unyielding loyalty." Right!

So where does Splane fit in? He's smarter than Herd or Lett, but that's probably not saying much. He seems to love the limelight as much as Morris does. Like every body of elders, there are those who are dominant and those who just go along. I see Splane, like Morris, and perhaps more recently Sanderson as the dominant ones. Someone here once said Lösch is a wanna-be, and that seems to be the case. Jackson is an enigma in my mind.

prologos: THIS is the kind of info I'm looking for. I did not have personal exposure to most of these guys when I was in, so your words about Splane's talks are appreciated. Wish to share any of these "artifacts" or any more info?

22

The new Fred Franz?

by careful in

of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (ray franz quoting karl klein or someone else on the gb back in the days of gb i in cofc somewhere ), but i have to wonder just who on gb ii has come to fill fred franz's shoes the most.

it seems like it is david splane.

he appears to be in charge of the writing department, proposes and pushes thru the gb most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like ff, fancies himself musically inclined.

careful

Of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (Ray Franz quoting Karl Klein or someone else on the GB back in the days of GB I in CofC somewhere ), but I have to wonder just who on GB II has come to fill Fred Franz's shoes the most. It seems like it is David Splane. He appears to be in charge of the Writing Department, proposes and pushes thru the GB most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like FF, fancies himself musically inclined. I've read here that various ones have said he was more studious than the average big shot elder when forum members knew him. That is isn't saying much, of course, in the Witness world, and I doubt he was the college dropout with some formal Greek under his belt that FF was.

In several ways he doesn't seem as bright at FF was. At least Splane doesn't think out the consequences of his doctrinal changes like FF did—not that FF wasn't also short-sighted, but he seemed at least somewhat better in this area. FF seemed more reluctant to change a doctrinal issue unless he could offer a replacement. Splane seems more eager to reject certain long-established doctrine/belief without offering much to replace the spurned interpretation. For example, there's the nebulous dismissal of type/anti-type, shadow-reality interpretations, which had a long respectable place in earliest Christianity.

Input here?

8

Brooklyn Heights and DUMBO properties the Jehovah's Witnesses haven't yet sold: Part One

by wifibandit in

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2015/12/30/brooklyn-heights-and-dumbo-properties-jehovahs-witnesses-havent-yet-sold-part.

21 clark st.. .

80 willow st.. .

careful

Thanks for this post WFBT.

As BB put it, all this will surely sell. The GB is probably waiting for certain in-house green lights for the big move to Warwick. They may also be waiting for the optimal time to sell, that is, get the most $ for their property.

23

Is the term "worldly" outdated?

by A.proclaimer in

jw
friends

yesterday i had to listen to the co from a spanish congregation on the phone.

he said the fds has been gradually moving away from the word "worldly" and teaching jws not to use the term anymore.

has anyone heard this in their congregation or heard the term "non-believers" used before?

careful

blondie,

So when did the change occur? Surely it was used for people in the publications back when I was in.

One observation. It only occurs in the NWT (old and new editions) at Titus 2:12 where it refers to "worldly desires." Could this lie behind the change to apply it only to non-persons?

There does not seem to be a handy replacement. "Oh, he's so non-JW" or "My, she's terribly unbelieverly" just doesn't cut it. Perhaps it's one of those tings they will limit in print but go on tolerating among the R&F because there is no convenient alternative.

63

Watchtower crackdown on anointed expansion - are they reaching for a solution to the expanding numbers problem?

by slimboyfat in

if this has been discussed i missed it.

i think the january study watchtower is a concerted attempt to reduce the numbers claiming to be anointed.

but i love the sneaky way they go about it this time.

careful

Both millie210 and prologos have valid points. M210's words "deliberately vague in print" and prologos's "every word is carefully chosen" need not be mutually exclusive. Yes, SBF may well be on to something. These WT study articles are indeed carefully written and worked over repeatedly by the time they appear to the R&F. On the other hand, the "anointed" topic itself is steeped in mystery.

Why is it that this "anointing process" (nice pick up on that term, prologos) has never been described by those who have gone through it? All the current GB members started proclaiming their anointed status by partaking of the emblems at one memorial observance, in a specific act at a specific time, that is, they came out of the closet from previously being just one of the other sheep. Almost all the R&F plebeians would love to know just what this entails (see one of the few threads I've started here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4881263357853696/rick-tunon). So why have those in power intentionally kept this matter that the Witness masses crave to have revealed so secret? Surely they too must have wondered about it themselves when they too were merely one of the other sheep. Doesn't it strike you as odd that this secrecy has existed for years when nearly all the masses would love to have it solved? Why is it kept so "deliberately vague" in spite of the natural curiosity about it?