careful

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Posts by careful

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  102

  Day 2 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Thomas Jefferson Jr takes the stand in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  day two (wednesday 8 february 2017).

  see also posts and threads regarding: pre-trial / day one / day one update / day five (last day, settlement).

  jefferson: not totally.. zeff: okay.

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  careful

  Thanks for the post. It's interesting stuff.
  
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  24

  Last Week I Got A Call From An Elder I Haven't Seen In 20 Years...😳

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while i was at work i got a phone call from an elder i haven't seen in decades!

  he started asking me questions about my family, my ex, and told me that he heard i "was no longer in the truth".

  i got a little defensive and he quickly picked up on it and assured me his call had nothing to do with checking up on me regarding the religion.

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  careful

  SBF is probably right here. Other reasons for him repeatedly "reaching out" (love the irony!) to you are less likely.
  
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  11

  How can elders find someone.. And how long would it take?

  by Randy notmarsh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let's throw a hypothetical.

  let's say that a body of elders is looking for someone in a different congregation, but don't know what kh he attends, how do they go on about it?

  how long do you guys think it'll take?

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  careful

  All they have to do is pay a fee to (or hack into) an online finding service to get your current home address and info. You would have go live off the grid to make that not possible for them, or anyone else today. They hunted me down after over 10 years of being inactive and I'm sure they must have used that method. For someone who is still active, as your OP indicates, it would be even easier, for they could complement the online service with the local BOE.
  
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  26

  Does Paul preach a fundamentally different religion than Jesus?

  by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  controversy has arisen regarding jesus versus paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of jesus and paul.1 jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.

  paul did not.

  paul preached justification by faith alone.

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  careful

  That's why I quoted 1 Th, 1 Cor, and Gal. I could have quoted more passages from the supposedly genuine Paulines as well. The OP was not about the debate regarding the disputed Pauline letters but about the kingdom in Paul—nothing like going off on a tangent. What about the matter in the OP?
  
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  26

  Does Paul preach a fundamentally different religion than Jesus?

  by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  controversy has arisen regarding jesus versus paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of jesus and paul.1 jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.

  paul did not.

  paul preached justification by faith alone.

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  careful

  So Paul did not peach the kingdom of God? Hmmm...

  So when Paul told the Thessalonians "God ... calls you to his kingdom and glory" (1 Th 2:12) and then later to the same people,"you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God" (2 Th 1:5), or in his frequent warnings about sins that would mean his converts would not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9, 19; Gal 5:21; Eph 5:5), he was not speaking of the kingdom of God that Jesus spoke of? Are you serious?
  
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  23

  Was Ray Franz Playing The Long Game?

  by rory-ks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm just making my way through crisis of conscience for the second time and once again i am struck by the presentation of such detailed records.

  letters are shown in full - copies of letters from the branch, and to the branch.

  reports are quoted vebatim.

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  careful

  blondie, thanks for this:

  Being da'd woke up Ray to the finality of changing the WTS. But he wanted so share what he had learned the hard way to make it easier for others like me to wake up.
  
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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  careful

  I doubt there has ever been so much rapid change in the organisation. I can't help but think its just all sizzle to disguise the fact that there is no steak anymore.
  

  Wisely put!
  
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  23

  Was Ray Franz Playing The Long Game?

  by rory-ks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm just making my way through crisis of conscience for the second time and once again i am struck by the presentation of such detailed records.

  letters are shown in full - copies of letters from the branch, and to the branch.

  reports are quoted vebatim.

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  careful

  rory, it's coincidental that last week I took out my 1st ed. hard copy of CofC from my storage boxes in a closet and also began rereading it after 30+ years. I've got a 4th ed. electronic version, so I thought it would be doubly good to see how I would react now to his book and my marginal comments made in it from so many years ago, and to compare how the book changed as it has gone thru its revisions. I've only had the time to go thru a few chapters, but it has been revealing on several fronts.

  As to your question, I remember that, as you said about others, it took me many years to deal with my increasing doubts as I witnessed the organization's internal corruption that I saw while rising within it (indeed your "catalyst for change"—nice phrase). I had filing cabinets filled with pre-electronic files of papers, and a large library of non-organizational books and WT publications. I felt it was necessary to have as much info as I could available to me so I could learn as many of the facts as possible and therefore make an informed decision about my future (of course, I've jettisoned much of it over the years, but I still have a fraction of it). So as others have already expressed above, I do not find it at all odd that RF kept documents and records long in advance. In fact, I would expect that.

  Unlike RF, I realized that trying to change things from the inside was futile and likely suicidal, so I gradually and carefully bailed in a well planned way before issues would come to a head. In Ray's situation, that was not possible since he'd served on the GB. Fading was not an option in his case. For him, it was more like having become a "made man" in the Mafia: no one can leave (the GB) like he did without a hit being put out on him.
  
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  23

  The goal in all this 1918/1919 change?

  by careful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as some have recently posted here, there does seem to be a shift going on in their self-interpretation(s) of what happened in 1918 and 1919. if we can look past all the details that emphasize the poor thinking and poor wording (or contradictions/just plain craziness/insignificance) of their message, something bigger seems to be afoot.

  they appear to be attempting to redefine the meanings for some "prophetic" scriptures in light of themselves.

  1. they are trying to somehow fill the void they have themselves created from their rejecting freddie franz's (ff) type–anti-type postulations.

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  careful

  SBF, I found the same link you provided on a google search, but when I hit it, it was just as dead as when I clicked on the link you provided. A search on worldcat reveals that Ahlstrom's work is a 1990 dissertation done at the University of California Santa Barbara, likely before all such dissertations were microfilmed. Someone beside the UCSB library, which holds the lone hard copy available and likely did not make a pdf of it (or it would be on their catalogue entry), must have made a pdf and uploaded on some website which is no longer is hosting the link. Do you have a pdf version in your files that you can share here?
  
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  23

  The goal in all this 1918/1919 change?

  by careful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as some have recently posted here, there does seem to be a shift going on in their self-interpretation(s) of what happened in 1918 and 1919. if we can look past all the details that emphasize the poor thinking and poor wording (or contradictions/just plain craziness/insignificance) of their message, something bigger seems to be afoot.

  they appear to be attempting to redefine the meanings for some "prophetic" scriptures in light of themselves.

  1. they are trying to somehow fill the void they have themselves created from their rejecting freddie franz's (ff) type–anti-type postulations.

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  careful

  Thanks, SBF. Yes, I remember reading those IDs of Russell years ago. I cannot get the link to work. Would you repost, please?