Posts by bythesea

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

bythesea

OK, so I'm curious....what constitutes an actual CELEBRATION of a birthday??? If I don't have a cake and candles, if there are no prettily wrapped gifts for the person to open...BUT I have made their favorite dinner (per their choice) and we open a nice bottle of wine (not an every night occasion) and give the person an "I love you" card...is THAT celebrating their birthday???

What makes the difference between acknowledging the date and celebrating it??

I'm extremely glad that I gave birth to my children and every year as they were growing up I did something special with them on that day, even if just a craft project or a trip into town to stop for ice cream...and I let them know the day was special to me because they were a blessing to me from God....was that wrong, SS???

38

I just found this site....THANK GOD!

by confused_101 in

jw
friends

ok long story short i was baptized at 17 (because i felt pressured into it), and i was df about 2yrs ago i believe (i'm 27 now).

i wasn't at the final meeting, or any meeting about my dfing.

i had an elder call me twice at work and tell me that there was meeting that night.

bythesea

WELCOME CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're glad you found this site too! You will find people from all kinds of situations here and able to offer insights and their experiences to help you along your way. Many well-read types too....hopefully you won't have to remain "confused" for too long! I hope we hear from again soon! Try reading "The best of..." section to start getting info on all kinds of topics!

Bythesea

83

Are You Afraid To Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you every worry about dying?

do you think that you probably won't have a very long life?

bythesea

No, I'm not....I no longer know what to believe about what happens to me at death...working on that one!, but during my hospice training last year there was a class that ended up having a huge impact on me and was actually instrumental in my beginning to fade from JW. The point was made that those who are critically ill, knowing they are going to die, but have lived a life of integrity end up being those who let go and DIE with a sense of peace. I've read many books having to do with death and dieing and it is a reoccuring theme that (those who are able to express themselves right up until death takes them) frequently make mention of the bright light and tunnel they are passing through...of loved ones waiting for them, etc. I know that's almost become a classic TV movie genre, but there must be some reason other than demons!!!!

I don't know what to think and don't want to hi-jack the thread, but maybe its another topic for discussion?? bythesea

73

D'Fing and Love

by I-CH-TH-U-S in

jw
friends

i once talked to a jw about disfellowshipping and was curious to how can this be showing a christly love when you all out turn your back on them.

he gave me an answer about rightousness and unrightrousness having no fellowship (which is biblical) but it didnt make sense to me.

didnt seem applicable in many ways.

bythesea

While I haven't experienced DF personally I've gone through it with several family members, including my son who is currently DF for the second time. The first time was after going to the bros, as repentant as all get out, for what a bunch of the young people in various congs were engaging in that WAS wrong by Biblical standards. He chose, on his own, to go and confess and clear his conscious...he was sorry and wanted to get back on a better track. They DFed him...and the night it was announced in the cong one of the elders on his JC took me aside and explained that my son was indeed repentant, BUT........they were making an example of him because the wrong doing had come to be known in the different congs and they wanted to send a message. These words came out of the PO's own mouth. So, so much for the JW party line of only UNrepentent wrongdoers are DFed! Since we had been so confident that our son would be treated lovingly and helped along it came as quite a shock....and it took 3 years for him to come back around and be reinstated. My disillusionment began to grow.....and grow.....and grow.....

The current story....He requested a meeting with the bros to clear up a misunderstanding he'd had with a committee in a previous KH...they learned he was seeing a DF girl (the reason he'd had the JC at the other KH) and while they were willing to set matters straight they advised him to quit seeing the girl. He explained that they were already discussing marriage and he didn't know if he wanted to wait until she was reinstated. So they chose to DF for what he MIGHT do in the future...ie. continue to see her. Since they did DF him the kids have gone ahead and gotten married and both are working towards reinstatement again. Darn!!!

I've been associated with JW for over 20 years and it took until my son's experience to see that they don't live up to their own teachings about DFing...repentent sinners DO get DF and you can be DF for something you might decide to do in the future. How is ANY of that scriptural and how does it show love????? I was sorry I encouraged our son to go to the bros....and never would suggest to a person that they seek out their assistance ever again, thinking that a wrong can be righted by their "loving" help.

Bottom line: The WTS places itself & the need for reconciliation with a human org above direct repentence before God & seeking HIS forgiveness alone. It disavows the Bible teaching of Jesus' sacrifice. It adds definitions and descriptions to sin & makes confession to MEN a condition of forgiveness & salvation. In doing this it negates the entire construct of salvation through Christ- Salvation through approaching God & him alone...the org surplants God & Christ....the hurt and damage can last a lifetime.

Sorry this is so long.....I don't post often, but this is definitely one of my pet peeves against the WTS! Bythesea

29

yet another newbie

by walkaway in

hello everyone, i am brand new, thought i would say hello.

i am still "in" the org, still serving "faithfully" in the hall that i grew up in.

my father is the po and i am part somewhat of a dynasty, with all my extended family being witnesses.

bythesea

Welcome Walkaway! Good for you for having the courage to express yourself and your doubts. I'm still officially "in" also, but have been working on fading since the first of this year....like you, I also am from a now 5 generation dynasty of JW's, so I know where you're coming from on that score!! But, you will learn a lot here on JWD, it will help to clarify your feelings and I hope we hear from you often. I recommend the "Best of...," features...VERY good reading and so informative!

Bythesea

27

i need some advise

by bayrhino in

jw
friends

we'll were do i start i've surfed your board and i now at the point of breaking away from the jw organization .

for about 2 years now i've read and done some research and seen all the lies cover up read "crisis if conscience" ray franz and i got to the meeting and see all these people hundreds just going about not being open minded if wt tells these people the world is flat the thats what they'll believe and never question it.

we'll im 28 and been a jw all my life met my wife got married i have 2 wonderfull kids.

bythesea

WELCOME Bayrhino and Shootist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bay, I'm also working on a slow fade...since the first of this year...so far so good! Its REALLY difficult to keep information to yourself when you do the research and learn how you've been deceived....I wanted to tell all my family too, but it came so close to blowing up...I learned the hard way that it does need to be spoonfed to them...so try and take it slow, hopefully it will pay off in the end. I agree with whoever said that the immediate family are the ones that need your direct attention....I also have almost 100 family inside the Org and sometimes feel like since I know the REAL TRUTH that I owe it to them to enlighten them all! However, it just isn't that easy....

Shootist....I would be interested in finding a copy of the book you mentioned! Any idea where it could be found, since it has an ancient copy date? Also, maybe since you've been able to help so many others OUT of the Org since you left yourself you could give us some pointers in how you were able to do that....what was your strategy, your approach, what tactic did you most often find helpful in getting a hearing ear?? Many of us have good friends, family and loved ones we'd also like to get out of Org, so can you give us some tips??

Again, welcome to both of you and hope we hear from you both again soon! Bythesea

13

Which of Franz's books is better, COC of CF?

by jwfacts in

when i was rethinking the wts i did most of my research by going back to old books and steering clear of "apostate" material, so i knew the wrong dates, pyramids etc and made my mind up before reading any apostate sites.

when i finally read crisis of conscience i already knew a lot of the information in it, though i still really enjoyed it.

however, even after i knew the wts was a con i still did not have answers for some of the doctrines, like great crowd/other sheep and organisation.

bythesea

I found CofC very important in exposing the WTS for what it actually is: just a bunch of men on a power trip, basically. It helped me to take a stand in my mind, at least, that I could no longer pretend to myself that this was God's Organization. I'd been trying to sell myself on that for the last 10 years of my 24 yrs association! But, with CF I was given a place to fall....Franz' second book is a great comfort to me, I read it regularly, certain passages....he has helped me to sort out some of the stickery subjects...not that he gives us all the answers, but it has helped me to not feel the guilt and to trust that my relationship with God IS a personal one, not needing an org. I'd recommend them both to anyone leaving....

33

New here.

by On the Fence in

this is my first time posting, although i've read for a while.

i've been a (bad example of) a witness now for about 15 years.

in all those 15 years, i did not at any time have a good friend within the congo.

bythesea

Welcome, Onthefence!!! I applaude you for walking away and, lucky you, that you have family that you can turn to and be accepted for who you are, not for what you believe. This forum will give you the place to explore your own feelings, vent and cry when those times arise....I haven't had to do that myself yet, but know that its a safe haven for a person leaving the WTS.

I also urge you to read read read...study your Bible and if you haven't, then SWITCH translations....I started using the NIV and it has opened up scripture to me that never meant anything before....also, read Ray Franz books, it will help you get over the guilt when you understand that God is NOT leading this organization...there's alot of information about JW's at different sites, browse through them, educate yourself about what this religion is REALLY about....it will help you get OFF the fence!

Its hard, I know, I'm still working at fading myself, but mentally I was FREE of them many months ago...all of the things I've told you helped me, I just want to share.....hope we hear more from you...keep us posted, ok? Bythesea

9

I'm back and I'm a grandma!!

by bythesea in

jw
friends

in case you didn't miss me that's ok!!

i took off for a month and went to be with my only daughter who was expecting her first child....which is 2 weeks old today!!

i just got home today and wanted to check in and say hi; checking back through the posts i see there are many new ones and that i've missed some lively conversation!

bythesea

Thanks everyone!

Lisa: I don't know how she'll respond, with what was said already between us I got the feeling she was concerned but oddly enough her initial reaction was one of thinking that I was elevating myself above her, that I was claiming superiority because I knew stuff she didn't know...??!! Also, that it made her wonder if I felt she was stupid for believing it was the Truth still. It was an odd reaction, I thought...not one I would have expected. I don't know what to expect down the road...I have a good relationship with both her and her husband, so don't know. I know I can't count on that to always be there if they think I've turned apostate!

Bully....WOW! Grandad at 35!! My cousin beats you on that one, tho! Grandma at 30!! Daughter followed her mom's example and got pg at age 15...easy math! Sounds like you're enjoy your role!

bythesea

16

Another interlude

by onacruse in

jw
friends

in the course of my "life story" posts, the life stories of others have, or are, coming, to an end.. first, and foremost, the wife of my youth is now at her deathbed.

she suffered many pains because of my own inabilities to relate to other people.. how i wish i could touch her hand and express my feelings to her...but the constraints of life prevent me from so doing.. i wish her nothing less than the best and safest and most painless passage to whatever that awaits her.. .

and, don whiteman has died.. now that he has died, i will name his name.. he was an integral part of my bethel expectations.

bythesea

So sorry for your loss I sent you a pm before reading this post....