Posts by Frogleg

12

The sin of the rebel

by IP_SEC in

rebellion is one of the greatest sins to the witnesses.

if you believe the bible, there are many good examples to show why rebellion is wrong.

satan, korah, adam and eve, are used by the society to show that to be loyal to the organization is the right thing to do.

The "rebel" in Biblical history is such a good aspect to consider. I have often noted and marveled the Bible's preference to the individual over the group. As probably everyone here has done, I have read the Bible many times, and, from time to time, I tried to read it from different angles; first, imagining it as a tech manual, then, sometimes, as a novel, and then other times as a proclamation from the owner of the universe. But I do not recall ever having gotten the sense of the need for or the superiority of groups. That isn't to say that there weren't crowds of people in the Bible; but, except, prehaps, for the crowds that followed JC out of curiosity (not to mention the free food and medical attention, "Blessed are the cheese makers?") large gatherings of people usually indicated "bad" things were happening, or going to happen. It seems that it is always the individual, or small group of individuals, that God favors and to whom he sends his spirit.

Recent Catastrophies

by Frogleg in

it doesn't seem to matter what you know, or don't know, hearing about a sudden, seemingly linked catastrophies always makes me feel kind of spooky.

i ran across this piece that touches on the subject and it seemed to bring all of the recent happenings into a bit more of a perspective.

i especially liked the near-limerick at the end.

Frogleg

It doesn't seem to matter what you know, or don't know, hearing about a sudden, seemingly linked catastrophies always makes me feel kind of spooky. I ran across this piece that touches on the subject and it seemed to bring all of the recent happenings into a bit more of a perspective. I especially liked the near-limerick at the end. What do you think?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/10/AR2005101001168.html

31

Greetings

by Severus in

just a brief introduction to get me started.

i am still one of jehovah's witnesses although delicately extricating myself from this complicated situation.

i have family to be concerned about, and this still binds me to the religion like a fragile cobweb.. i wonder that the jw paranoia of harry potter was what initially piqued my interest?

Frogleg

I am curious of your use of the word "implode". Why did you choose it? I can think of many verbs that a person might use:

Explode, rot, fade away, be destroyed, dissolve, atrophy, etc.

My curiosity comes from the fact that I too see the result as being an implosion, although I don't recall anyone else ever describing it that way.

"Ah, an educated man. This certainly eliminates the possibility of your being a field agent."

-The Rock-

21

Chronicles - Don't Touch His Ear Lobe!

by misspeaches in

so here i was a ridiculously naive girl of around 25 years.

i was living interstate attending meetings, witnessing and making new friends in the congregation.

i got on great with a brother 'g'.

Frogleg

misspeaches, (are you from Georgia? even though Down Under?)

You are a "master member" and are just now posting this? I am curious about why you suddenly posted this. I can empathise with your story, having been in quite the same position. But I am reluctant to say anything as I feel a bit "baited' by your sudden revalation.

23

worry about yourself. who cares what everyones else does...

by What_is_ur_point in

why do witness, xwitness, disassociated witness, disfellowshipped witness, atheists.. why doesn't everyone worry about themselves.

it's so pointless when someone like me raises certain opinion's that cant be breached here on the message boards.

people say that they win against people like me.. ?

Frogleg

I make no apologies for this board or anyone on it. Including you. If you "believe in God" (whatever that means) then fine. If you don't, fine. If you think God is a wart on a frog's asshole, great. What does it matter to me? For me? To me? or any other preposition in regards to me or anyone else. I think you miss the probable intention of this board and these people. Although I cannot speak for the others, I see this platform as a way to expand you. Yeah, you! Having been in or near an "organization" who's avowed purpose is always for somebody else, its hard to imagine a bunch of folks who are really only concerned with you. I don't care if you believe in Jesus, Jehovah, or Rutabaga, I want you to be as happy and as content as you can be. Trying to make yourself happy by believing something that somebody else says is right is a dead end street; but, that is my experience. Maybe for you it is Nirvana, in which case, great, if you truely feel that way, no one here has the authority nor the validity to say that you are wrong. However, if you cannot understand the subtlties nor grasp the emotional strings that are displayed by those who write to this board, then your place is not here. It is quite probable that your place is to remain in the congregation whos inconsistancies made you curious about "us". There is no shame in that (although many bitter voices centered here may disagree) , not only because "shame" is so relative, but because beneath it all, the "true Christians" of this world only want you to be like Jehovah claims to be: happy. If you are happy where you are, then stay there. If not, then get off your ambivalent ass and decide, you dumb shit, decide.

42

How do you explain bible prophecies?

by ithinkisee in

you know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?

conspiracy by the early church?

conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.

Frogleg

The Bible is truth. Absolute truth, and I think that we all know it to the depth of our souls. If I were the cosmic engineer, I would wire it into our DNA, RNA, and/or both. But the "prophecies"? Why tell someone the future? Especially when your advance men have built your "name" on what'sa commin'. If you're going to believe the Bible, you're going to believe it. The "ability" to fortell the future, whether thru guarded prose, codes, or well placed bullshit shouldn't be a factor. My sheep will hear my voice and follow.

"The man in me will hide sometimes to keep from being seen.

But that's just because he doesn't want to turn into some machine."

If you look for things outside of yourself to tell you what you know, you will never know.

"Let's all get up and dance to a song that was hit before your mother was born.

Though she was born a long, long time ago, your mother should know.

Your mother should know."

6

Why do Jw's....

by Honesty in

.

label mankind as imperfect when the bible clearly explains that humans are sinners and are separated from god because of sin?

Frogleg

Because you are imperfect. Understand it. Revel in it. Believe in it, because that is what you are. Does it make you worm shit? Eventually, but it is nothing for you to worry about. Does God forgive you?

"That'll keep you going for the show. C'mon its time to go."

Does it matter? Is God the Marines, only wanting a "few good men"?

You are imperfect thru no fault your own. Does that mean you should live your life in guilt and shame? If you think so and it makes you happy then, yes, by all means, yes. If it seems a bit unfair and silly, then by all means, love who you can, enjoy what you can, and give thanks to God if it makes the enjoyment better.

You fear something that you were never meant to fear. But that fear is natural and therefore easily exploitable. If I met you today I think I would enjoy shooting a game of pool with you. Is there a better measure of a man than to be one who would be found enjoyable at pool? Love yourself. You are, indeed, so cool as to inspire the deepest jealousy of those in the next dimension. If only you knew how important you were then, I dare say, the Bible would shrink to insignficance. Within you is the universe, and all that it ever will be. God is your servant, He needs you to make his point; but, you are the point.

"You can ease my mind and put me there on time, and move me on."

119

Since you left Jehovahs................................

by defd in

organization and the faith.

what hope do yall entertain for the future....the everlasting future?

do you still believe, want to be on a paradise earth or what?

Frogleg

I didn't answer Dfed's question right away because I was thinking about it. After reading the subsequent replies and his(?) remarks it became obvious that the original intention was to bait those who supposedly have no hope for a future. So I wrote this and decided to start it as new thread. If it works fine, if it doesn't, fine.

Hope, at its most basic, is a baseless belief. JWs want to make much of the fact they (and only they) have some sort of hope for the future; yet, they would be more powerful if they claimed that they didn't have a hope, but, in fact, they had an assurance. But such is the squiggly nature of faith when it is based on only men and words.

My future had always been based upon people. Just people. No God, no Jesus, no anointed, no bullshit promises and checks in the mail. The people I saw, read about, heard, and prayed for every day were the future of anything that was going to amount to any worthwhile substance on this planet. But they were confused, skittish, hurtful, hateful, sad, dreary, soft, warm, loving, needful, needy, and triumphant. They took all that God, or whomever (does it really matter?) could dish out and they cried, buried, bowed their heads, and carried on. What a middle finger to the universe; to take it up the ass and come back for more. If there are any "devine" individuals, let me, please, be the first to say "Fuck you! We're still here. Now take your selfish, infantile infighting and go somewhere else. We didn't ask for this shit and we didn't deserve it. But we beat it. And we beat you. You want to kill us? Then get it the fuck over with; otherwise, accept it that we won't give up, give in, or kneel to the likes of something that can only try and prove itself by pain, sorrow, and suffering. We don't care if you're the person who did it, or the one who let it be done. You want to be worshipped? Then earn it, motherfucker. That's what we 'lower than angels' lifeforms have done: earn it. Can you?"

My hope for the future is the same as its always been: I am living in a world of individuals who demand and give respect to all the other forms of life, and a God who does all that He can to promote the well being and futherance of the individual. That may not be possible. In fact, it is probably improbable, but it is what I hope for. As long as death is the end of it all, there is no hope. The dealer has pocketed all the aces. Gee, I wonder why? Afraid of what I might do with a little edge?

19

Who will survive Armageddon? What does the WT teach?

by GoingGoingGone in

i made a comment to my 15 year old son last night about the arrogance of the jw teaching that all non-jws will be destroyed at armageddon.

he responded that i am mistaken, that the jws teach that jehovah reads hearts, even of those who are being preached to today.

in other words, no one is 'written off' like that, and btw he hates it when i take a teaching i don't like and exaggerate it like that..... .

Frogleg

Sometimes we try to go too deep. I have to agree that it is not what the JW in the next seat believes, or even the JW in Brooklyn thinks. But what person that has ever come in contact with a JW (on an official basis) would deny that JWs beieve that they are the only ones that are going to be left alive? The Borg always use the "Ark" scenario because its at the other end of the Bible from JC, and if you start thinking too hard about JC you start comming up with some scary thoughts. For example, the first person we will all meet in the "New System" will be Adolph Hitler. After all, what greater example of "God's forgiveness" and depth of JC's "sacrifice" could there be? At age 17, my youngest son got fed up, walked out of the Kingdom Hall, and never went back. Today, he's a Mormon and quite happy about it. A lot of people wanted to know why it didn't "break" my heart to see him do that. Of what possible consequence could it make? He is quite happy with what he is and what more could any parent ask for? The stupidity of the JWs became manifest when they began to confuse obedience with love. If your son is happy, kiss him and tell him how proud he makes you, not because he is a JW, but because he is happy. Trust me, he is fairly unique.

12

Where are all the people who failed the BIG TEST...?

by upside/down in

isn't it odd that all the crucial contests in the bible between good and evil....involved some human "keeping integrity"?

we know for example what job did... .

were there any guys like job that flat out failed?

Frogleg

I am one of those people who failed the "big test". But, in my case at least, Satan doesn't have anything much to "crow" about; because, what's to crow about? It is difficult for me to envision any reasonable person taking great glee, pride, or sense of accomplishment over the fact that something was pulled out from under, or something put over on, a fairly ignorant being who's total awareness, strength, and power constitutes a teeny, tiny fraction of that of the big bad guy who is reputedly doing the testing. It would be like whooping it up because a professional football team won a stunning victory over a trio of Brownie Scouts. I know, I know, "But JC won. He passed the test." Yeah, maybe, but again, was there ever any real doubt?

I guess where I started to lose the test was when I started to connect the dots. A recent example of this is when I started asking why has there been over 2K years of pain and suffering to humanity AFTER Jesus supposedly died for all of us. It would seem that the legal case, the Job case, and every other case that could possibly have been initiated to, at, or around this Supreme Being was brought to successful completion with the "perfect" sacrifice. So what's the problem? The moment JC took it to the wall, there should have been a cosmic whistle and a booming voice saying, "Okay. That's it. Case closed. We win, you lose. All you people are dead. All the rest of you, it's out for ice cream! My treat!" Instead, we end up with 2000 more years of hapless, helpless, hurtful, short, little lives that can not, in any way shape or form, add anything to the cosmic equation.

Another dot sequence: In Matthew, Jesus describes the first marriage and supposedly says, "What God has yoked together, let no man pull apart." Now, it would seem safe to assume that the "no man" part refers to the husband as well, i.e. Adam. Such that, then when Adam got home that evening and found out what Eve had done, he had two basic choices: turn her in or follow suit. However, if he had turned her in, she would have died for her action, and he (Adam) would have been complicit in unyoking himself from Eve and thereby disobeying God. Afterall, there was no "till death do you part" in the original contract. His other choice was to stick with his wife as per the plan, and because the two were now "one flesh" they were in a mental/emotional state whereby "a daughter will leave her mother and a son leave his father"...but wait, who was Adam's father again? Oh, never mind about that. So, pretty much, Adam was fairly well screwed from the git go. Unfortunately, his rather gutless reply to God's question as to whether he had done the bad left no room for discussion, he just immediately and totally accepted that the guilt was on the human level. It was all his fault. Wow, where have I heard that one before?

Of course, I am looking at this thru the eyes of a romantic, rather than the eyes of "Christian". I want to believe that Adam did what he did out of a love for his wife and a need to protect her no matter what. As opposed to the well worn WT declaration that Adam did it because he wanted to prove that he didn't need God, that he could (oh, how telling this statement) "decide for himself".

One final recent dot matrix. One of the things I used to hear so often was how "Jehovah has always had an organization on the Earth that He works thru." I probably missed it because I was to busy failing the test, but can someone point out to me the organization that Ezekiel had? How about Isiah? Joseph? Abraham? Job, Jonah, John T. Baptiser? I kinda recall these guys as being rather singular individuals in OPPOSITION to the established organizations, but then, my memory must be weak, which is why I failed the Big Test.