All they have to do is slide forward in time some of the fulfilments that they currently attach to 1914, while still retaining the date and some of the significance attached to it. For example: Slide the start of the kingdom reign to the start of the great tribulation so it ties up with the start of the 1,000 year reign better. Slide Satan's ousting to the future also and make the 'short period of time' when the devil has great anger as being fulfilled during the GT (this would probably be the hardest to explain away. Rev 12 would pose big problems to reinterpret for the Society since it has applied the 'composite sign' as being caused by the Devil's ousting shortly after 1914, and Revelation links the coming of the kingdom into power with Satan's ousting.) But retain everything else, ie, keep the 1914 chronology (just like the SDA's have kept Miller's old 1843 chronology) and re-engineer the parousia to be nothing more than an 'inspection' period starting from 1914 (when Jesus 'turned his attention' to the earth again, as the Society is fond of saying), keep the separation of the wheat from the weeds as starting around 1918/19, (interestingly, the separation of the sheep from the goats was simply slid forward from 1918/19 to the great tribulation around the mid 1990's!), keep the spiritual release from Babylon the Great around 1918/19, keep the resurrection of the anointed to 1918/19, keep the composite sign of Jesus 'inspecton presence (parousia)' from 1914 (but creates problem re order of events in Revelation 12, as mentioned above). All the rest could easily be slid forward to apply during the Great Tribulation. This could actually give the Society more credibility in the eyes of the rank and file, as it is quite plain to see that God's kingdom hasn't been ruling since 1914 whatsoever and more and more JW's must be starting to wake up to this possibility. As each year goes by more and more, especially older ones, must be puzzling over the absurdity of how Jesus could be 'reigning' for nearly 100 years but not yet have 'come'. JW's would rejoice that now they have solved the enigma of why the Kingdom starting ruling in 1914 but nothing has changed on planet earth (the answer being: it never was reigning at all from 1914), yet the powermongers at Columbia Heights get to retain their exclusive channel status via a diluted version of 1914. I would bet that this is exactly how the Society will spin it, but not before the numerical 'growth' and statistics finally go into a terminal nose-dive, likely shortly after 2014. There will be no major doctrinal changes until that happens!!
yaddayadda
JoinedPosts by yaddayadda
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25
How the Society can almost drop 1914 and STILL retain their authority
by yaddayadda inthey can have the best of both worlds.
it would be quite easy, with a bit of imagination, for them to simply adopt an interpretation of scripture similar to the seventh day adventists belief about 1843. the sda's teach that since 1843 jesus has been engaged in an 'investigative judgment' upon christendom, having entered into the 'inner sanctuary' of heaven (or something to that effect) on that date to receive special authority to do that.
jesus since then has used the sda's as his favoured group of christians.
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I called my old KH today!!
by moshe inyes, i did and talked for over one hour to a 19 year old lifer dub.
i asked him if he had put a tract in my door implying that my religion was false.
i told him that i was jewish.-oops!
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yaddayadda
That is an interesting point about orthodox jews thinking blood transfusions are ok. Can you please direct me to a website where I could find out more about that. Re your points about the flood, they are easily overcome by most conservative Christians.
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What was your final straw that broke your back in terms of doctrine?
by ukescott inas ex-mormon, my exposure to a different version of the first vision story which was quite different from the offical first vision was my beginning way out of mormonism.
what about you ex-jw's?
what, in terms of wt doctrine, made you realize that the wt is a fraud?.
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yaddayadda
Not so much any doctrine but the gross hypocrisy and lying by the Watchtower leaders, after I discovered and thoroughly researched how they got into bed with the UN for 10 years. I realised then that there is no way Jehovah is using the Watchtower entity as his channel for feeding spiritual food.
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Loving your religion as a way of life as much as a belief system
by Qcmbr inbefore i start this isn't a preach about the lds church!
i'm sitting here at work having been called in and thus missing sunday meetings and i feel an ache to be at church.
i sat musing on this and the thought came to me that i actually love my membership of my faith, i enjoy the people (for the most part), i am fulfilled by the lifestyle, i am disappointed when we don't 'win' (in statistical battles etc.. :) and i am generally satisfied by the doctrine and apologetics (i don't feel painted into too many untenable positions and i have more than satisfactory explanations for many of life's 'unanswerables').
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yaddayadda
If you get a lot of satisfaction from staying in your church then stay. It can be a great framework for a vibrant social life, a community of like-minded people. If you don't experience any severe cognitive dissonance between your personal beliefs and what you keep hearing at your church, then it can't be that unhealthy to stay. Some people would rather be right than happy, and happiness is found in relationships, not dry words, doctrines, and creeds. Good on you.
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How the Society can almost drop 1914 and STILL retain their authority
by yaddayadda inthey can have the best of both worlds.
it would be quite easy, with a bit of imagination, for them to simply adopt an interpretation of scripture similar to the seventh day adventists belief about 1843. the sda's teach that since 1843 jesus has been engaged in an 'investigative judgment' upon christendom, having entered into the 'inner sanctuary' of heaven (or something to that effect) on that date to receive special authority to do that.
jesus since then has used the sda's as his favoured group of christians.
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yaddayadda
They can have the best of both worlds. It would be quite easy, with a bit of imagination, for them to simply adopt an interpretation of scripture similar to the Seventh Day Adventists belief about 1843. The SDA's teach that since 1843 Jesus has been engaged in an 'investigative judgment' upon Christendom, having entered into the 'inner sanctuary' of heaven (or something to that effect) on that date to receive special authority to do that. Jesus since then has used the SDA's as his favoured group of Christians. When it comes to the crunch all the Society has to do is make up a similar spin re 1914. They could easily bring out 'new light' to the effect that the Kingdom has not, after all, been reigning since 1914, but that this is still a marked year in bible prophecy because the 'parousia' still started in 1914 as evidenced through the 607 bible chronology and the 'composite sign' but Jesus has been present, not as a King, but in a type of investigative, judgment role, sifting the wheat from the weeds. All they need to do is change what the 'parousia' is about, ie, not about ruling as king but about arriving to appoint the FDS over all his belongings and releasing 'true Christians' from 'Babylonish captivity'. That way the Watchtower Society can shift a large part of the emphasis away from 1914 while retaining their special status as God's appointed channel since 1914. It would be a major doctrinal earthquake in the organisation and would no doubt cause quite a few to leave, but the great majority would no doubt swallow it wholesale, just as they gullibly swallowed the 'generation' shift in 1995! Piece of cake!!
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Question: In light of the "new light" how will they now explain...???
by Lady Liberty inhello everyone, i have missed all of you... been away for a while and trying to catch up on the latest..which brings me to my question... there is much talk regarding the latest statement about the 24 elders guiding the organization from heaven right now as was apparently printed in the recent watchtower.
if they really begin emphasising this as some sort of damage control because of the growing amount claiming they are anointed, how will they be able to explain away their changing light on different subjects??.
right now when cornered regarding subjects that have changed, they simply say it is "new light", they have made mistakes, and that they never claim to be perfect, after all they too are only human...well, if the 24 elders have been actually running the show since 1914, then why the flip flopping of teachings??.
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yaddayadda
This is not 'new light' at all. It is specifically taught in the Revelation Climax book and can be traced right back to Charles Rutherford in the 1920's.
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Society laying the groundwork for "new light"?
by sir82 inin the january 1 2007 wt, there is the following quote in one of the articles regarding the "first resurrection" (there are a few other posts on that article already):.
it seems that resurrected ones of the 24 elders group may be involved in communicating of divine truths today.. this may be the most significant sentence in the article (haven't read it in its entirety yet).
i don't recall seeing anything like it in print before.. seems to be laying the groundwork for a "flash of new light", to be exposed probably whenever the last of the 3 old-timers hanging on (barr, barber, jaracz) drop off:.
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yaddayadda
I found it interesting that in one of the latest magazines reporting on the latest Gilead graduation talks, Jack Barr said that 1914=start of kingdom rule is one thing that they are totally sure about and that the Gilead graduates must also be totally convinced about, or words to that effect. This possibly indicates that it is mainly just the old school members of the GB, such as Barr, Jacaracz, etc, who cherish and are clinging on to the utterly tenuous 1914 creed, but that the younger generation of GB members who are now coming in may be less willing to be so dogmatic on this belief? We know that as far back as when Ray Franz was on the GB, some GB members indicated a certain amount of doubt about the whole 1914 thing, at least according to Franz in COC. Surely, then, some GB members harbouring private doubts and speculations related to their 1914 chronology must be even greater today!
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Sacking of entire bodies of elders
by yaddayadda ini once heard about nearly an entire body of elders in a congregaton that got demoted/sacked from being elders because of some scandal in their congregation that they collectively covered up or didn't deal properly with.
i think it was about some relative of a dominant elder that should've got disfellowshipped but they all brushed it under the carpet.
the branch heard about it and sent a circuit overseer especially out to investigate it and he sacked nearly all of 'em and some new ministerial servant school graduates were quickly assigned to come in and take their place.
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yaddayadda
I once heard about nearly an entire body of elders in a congregaton that got demoted/sacked from being elders because of some scandal in their congregation that they collectively covered up or didn't deal properly with. I think it was about some relative of a dominant elder that should've got disfellowshipped but they all brushed it under the carpet. The Branch heard about it and sent a Circuit Overseer especially out to investigate it and he sacked nearly all of 'em and some new ministerial servant school graduates were quickly assigned to come in and take their place. Have you ever heard of this kind of thing happening? I wonder if a whole body of elders have all been sacked or disfellowshipped wholesale for 'turning apostate' or similar?
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has anyone seen this site of scanned WT material?
by truthsearcher ini came across this site run by an active jw.
http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/.
there is no comment on the scans other than to say the site is being run as an alternative to "apostate sites":.
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yaddayadda
The owner of that site is thoroughly naive if he thinks the typically loyal JW gives a shit about researching all those old Watchtowers and publications. The only thing that matters to JW's is 'current truth' and 'new light'. Any point of interpretation that has been superceded by some 'new light' is now completely irrelevant and worthless. The only people who would ever seriously use that website are those who have some doubts and want to dig up the facts for themselves from the Watchtower's own mouth. Thus he is serving the interests of doubters and 'apostates'. Thanks!
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Society laying the groundwork for "new light"?
by sir82 inin the january 1 2007 wt, there is the following quote in one of the articles regarding the "first resurrection" (there are a few other posts on that article already):.
it seems that resurrected ones of the 24 elders group may be involved in communicating of divine truths today.. this may be the most significant sentence in the article (haven't read it in its entirety yet).
i don't recall seeing anything like it in print before.. seems to be laying the groundwork for a "flash of new light", to be exposed probably whenever the last of the 3 old-timers hanging on (barr, barber, jaracz) drop off:.
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yaddayadda
Just what the heck are these 'divine truths' that the 24 elders are spiritistically communicating anyway?? The Watchtower Society hasn't produced any new 'divine truths' for ages....it's just the same old shite year after year, like a broken record. They are completely silent on modern day political, etc, developments as they may relate to bible prophecy, except to speak in vague generalities about the so-called 'composite sign' we have witnessed since 1914, blah blah blah? What this ridiculous notion is about is really pushing Jesus even further into the realms of non-activity. Jesus has retired to the Pleiades star-system and is sipping celestial Pina Colada's, having abrogated all spiritual duties to the GB and its committees, and now the 'faithful and discreet slave' class members who are supposedly already resurrected in heaven have also taken over Jesus role. KISS THE SOCIETY LEST THE GOVERNING BODY BE ANGRY AND YE BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED FROM THE WAY. HAPPY ARE ALL THEY THAT PUT THEIR TRUST IN THE GOVERNING BODY TODAY!!!!