Posts by yaddayadda

15

Does anyone else see a pattern?

by TD in

it seems to me that a repeating pattern with jw's is unfolding yet again.

i wonder if anybody else can "see" the same thing, or am i just imaginiing things?.

here's the scenario:.

yaddayadda

No, I havn't noticed that particular trend. A very interesting topic though.

Somewhat contrary to your theory, I have noticed that when any new GB member comes on board or a new President is appointed, the appointments are usually followed by some 'new light' or minor changes that reflect a general softening in interpretation or policy (eg, shortly after Franz's death the 'generation' and 'sheep and goats' interpretations were changed). This indicates that the GB has dominant personalities who cling to pet interpretations and when those die there is some accommodation to any fresh insights held by the new members.

Along these lines, something that may be significant is the large gap in the date of appointment between the two most senior members of the GB, John Barr and Theodore Jaracz, and the rest of them. There is nearly a 30 year gap between the appointments to the GB of John Barr (who is 94 now and cannot have too much longer to live) and Theodore Jaracz (who is 83 and has recently had a heart attack) and the rest of them. Gerrit Losch is the next appointee and he was appointed in 1994.

Here are the dates of birth and dates of appointment to the GB of the current GB members(a new appointment may be pending following Carey Barber's recent demise - it seems they like a minimum of 10 GB members):

John Edwin Barr 1913, 1977
Theodore Jaracz 1925, 1974
Gerrit Lösch 1942 July 1, 1994
Guy H. Pierce 1935 Oct 1, 1999
Samuel F. Herd 1935 Oct 1, 1999
David H. Splane 1944 Oct 1, 1999
M. Stephen Lett 1949 Oct 1, 1999
Anthony Morris III 1950 Sep 1, 2005
Geoffrey W. Jackson 1955 Sep 1, 2005

Notice the LARGE gap between Barr and Jaracz's appointments in 1977 and 1974 respectively and the rest of them. The next oldest appointment is in 1994. And all the rest were appointed less than 10 years ago. There also appears to be a bit of a generation gap between Barr, Jaracz, and the rest of them (but not so much Pierce and Herd). These could well be telling factors when Barr and Jaracz die.

Everyone knows that Jaracz is the kingpin at the moment. John Barr appears to also be a very dominant figure because of his seniority and the fact that he evidently still has all faculties and is still active. Historically we know that the GB tends to be dominated by one or two strong personalities and the rest of the GB more or less revolve around them. Ray Franz noted that some GB members would always vote according to how a certain dominant personality voted. It is my suspicion that Jaracz and Barr could be those dominant figures who are insistent on keeping the status quo and are preventing some of the more contentious creeds from being revisited (eg, blood doctrine, child molestation policy, shunning of family members), something that is desperately needed. When these two finally die off there could well be some flashes of 'new light' adopted soon after. Rather than reflecting a hardening of doctrine, as you suggest, these changes are likely to be towards a less rigid stance (its hard to imagine the current position being any more rigid and legalistic).

14

Putting The Kingdom First.....

by Sunspot in

if i had a dollar for all the times i heard this----*i* would be basking in a multimillion $$$ estate in the bahamas.

every jw was told this over and over at every meeting and convention the wts had the doors open for.

what i didn't realize was that jesus words were being twisted yet again by the men who write for the watchtower, as they continually shouted this into their loyal and obedient (tm) followers ears.. yes....jesus said for his followers to put his kingdom first in our lives......he didn't say to put the watchtower first in your lives!!!

yaddayadda

This is one area where JW's differ little from a lot of other churches who believe that the kingdom is more or less represented by the church. They all believe that making converts is increasing the kingdom.

The only difference is that JW's are converted to an organisation (that claims to represent Jehovah), whereas, the other churches convert to Christ.

78

Report on Todays special talk

by stillajwexelder in

ok - so special talk today - you can feel safe in a troubled world.

15 minutes devoted to to how bad things are.

iraq and usa were headlined and 1914 was mentioned > 20 times.

yaddayadda

"Forget about 2014, but the end is still coming within 120 years of
1914 (or so, we never actually said it)."

Exactly. The Society will never specifically point to 2034 but they will undoubtedly increasingly point to this supposed 120 year period parallel between Noah's time and 1914 to keep the rank and file in the 'ark'. It will gradually take hold in the JW's minds in the same way that the 'generation' parallel did (before it was dumped in 1995). Expect an increased emphasis on this supposed parallel to kick in after 2014.

They will say the end could come ANY TIME WITHIN this 120 year period. Putting it that way is how they will stop people leaving before 2034.

This is why the Society won't change the 1914 teaching at least before 2034. It is a good bet that some of the Governing Body, perhaps most, secretly hold to this 120 parallel belief. Believe me, they will pull this final chronological rabbit out of the hat when the publisher numbers really begin to dive some time soon after 2014.

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

yaddayadda

Nonsense. Anyone that confesses faith in Jesus Christ, believes that he is their personal saviour and redeemer and obeys his commandments is a Christian.

Who did Jesus put the focus on over and over and over again? Who did Jesus say he got EVERYTHING from..all that he taught...all authority...evertyhing. He got it from his Heavenly Father Yahweh/Jehovah.

Your list is completely selective. We could add a lot of things that most Christians do not do that is a major departure from scripture, eg:

Do most Christians worship the Father like Jesus did, or do they almost exclusively worship Jesus?

Did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray to anyone other than the Father?

Do most Christians believe they have an immortal soul. How many believe that evildoers will roast in a burning hell forever. These doctrines are clearly not biblical at all, yet most Christians believe them.

Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to doctrine.

11

"her sins have massed together clear up to heaven"

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

americans live in a dream world about the history of their country.. they just can't see the usa as the treacherous "harlot" in revelation.

how can it be said of the usa that "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth"_rev 18:24. certainly you can't say in a literal sense that the usa is responsible for "all those who have been slaughtered on the earth" any more than you could say that of ancient babylon - "at babylon the slain ones of all the earth have fallen".

_jeremiah 51:49. the blood-guilt of both ancient babylon and babylon the great is expressed as hyperbole - exageration for emphasis.. but, isn't the usa the most peace loving nation on earth?.

yaddayadda

Hows this:

Babylon the Great is the powerful Freemasons/Illuminati with their long term goal of ushering in a secular 'one world government'. They have infiltrated all major political, religious and commercial institutions (including the Watchtower Society). They are quasi religious/spiritistic.

34

Difficult to build faith up at church after leaving WTS

by White Dove in

jw
friends

how many of you who decided to remain christian and started to go to church had a hard time building your faith back up again after leaving the wts?

i'm having a hard time.

it's been 4 months since i began attending the penticostal assembly of god church in my town, and i love it.

yaddayadda

It all depends on what exactly you have lost your faith in.

Have you lost your belief in a personal God? Have you lost your belief in the Bible as the word of God? Have you lost your belief in Jesus, ie, you no longer trust the gospels as historical, trusthworthy documents? Or have you just lost your faith in organised religion?

Depending on what level your faith has diminished, the task for you then is to go hunt out all the many resources available in books and on the internet that can help you restore your faith in whatever you have lost your faith in. It will take some digging and mental effort but it is worth it.

After leaving the JW's I did exactly this. I was troubled by scepticism about nearly everything (except that I never doubted there is a God), but I persevered in my research and have now found a solid platform for my faith. I've found there is considerable evidence for taking what is really just a small step to having faith as a Christian; it is not a giant leap of incredulity.

I am happy to provide you with some sources if you send me a PM.

Regards
Yadda

51

Why do the GB members live so long?

by yaddayadda in

jw
friends

don't know if it's my imagination but a lot of these gb old boys seem to have a knack for living a really long time.

i think freddy franz was 99 when he died?

barber has just croaked at 102 (or 101?).

yaddayadda

Found some info (not sure how accurate).

Assuming the DOBs and DODs are correct, other ancient GB members were Lyman Swingle (91), Karl Klein (96), James Booth (94), George Gangas (98). They must put something in the tea at Brooklyn.

GOVERNING BODY OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

Member - Date of Birth - Appointment

Theodore Jaracz 1925 11/1974
John Edwin Barr 1913 9/1977
Gerrit Lösch 1942 July 1, 1994
Guy H. Pierce 1935 Oct 1, 1999
Samuel F. Herd 1935 Oct 1, 1999
David H. Splane 1944 Oct 1, 1999
M. Stephen Lett 1949 Oct 1, 1999
Anthony Morris III 1950 Sep 1, 2005
Geoffrey W. Jackson 1955 Sep 1, 2005

Member - Date of Birth - Appointment - Date of Death

Carey Walter Barber July 4, 1905 9/1977 Apr, 2007 (101)
Daniel Sydlik 2/1919 11/1974 Apr 18, 2006 (aged 87)
Albert Darger Schroeder 1911 11/1974 Mar 9, 2006 (aged 95)
Milton George Henschel 1921 Mar 22, 2003 (aged 82)
Lyman Alexander Swingle Nov 6, 1910 Mar 14, 2001 (aged 91)
Karl Frederick Klein 1905 11/1974 Jan 3, 2001 (aged 96)
William Lloyd Barry Dec 20, 1916 11/1974 July 2, 1999 (aged 83)
John Charles Booth 1902 11/1974 Jan 8, 1996 (aged 94)
George Demetrius Gangas Feb 17, 1896 Oct 15, 1971 July 28, 1994 (aged 98)
Frederick William Franz Sep 12, 1893 Dec 22, 1992 (aged 99)
Martin Poetzinger July 25, 1904 9/1977 June 16, 1988 (aged 84)
Grant Suiter 1908 Nov 22, 1983 (aged ?)
William Kirk Jackson Sep 16, 1901 Oct 15, 1971 Dec 13, 1981 (aged 80)
Nathan Homer Knorr 1905 June 8, 1977 (aged 72)
Charles John Fekel Mar 7, 1897 11/1974 Apr 24, 1977 (aged 80)
John Otto Groh July 3, 1906 Jan 23, 1975 (aged ?)
Thomas James Sullivan May 14, 1888 July 30, 1974 (aged ?)
Hugo Henry Riemer 1878 Mar 31, 1965 (aged ?)
William Edwin Van Amburgh 1863 Feb 7, 1947 (aged ?)

Member - Date of Birth - Appointment - No Longer a Member

Leo Kincaid Greenlees Oct 15, 1971 1985
Raymond Victor Franz Oct 15, 1971 May 22, 1980
Ewart Charles Chitty 1898 11/1974 1979

51

Why do the GB members live so long?

by yaddayadda in

jw
friends

don't know if it's my imagination but a lot of these gb old boys seem to have a knack for living a really long time.

i think freddy franz was 99 when he died?

barber has just croaked at 102 (or 101?).

yaddayadda

Don't know if it's my imagination but a lot of these GB old boys seem to have a knack for living a really long time.

I think Freddy Franz was 99 when he died? Barber has just croaked at 102 (or 101?). Albert Schroeder was 94 when he cashed in his chips last year. How old was Henschel? John Barr is 94 and is still giving gilead graduate talks!!!

Geez it sounds like a list of old nazi's.

The only exception I can think of was Lloyd Barry. I think he was only in his early 70's when he snuffed it.

What is the average age at death of all deceased GB members? Anyone know? I'd be surprised if it wasn't quite a bit higher than the US national average for males.

When I was a kid growing up in der troof I used to believe it was Holy Spirit that gave them their longevity. Obviously not having to do normal work and having all your physical needs catered for for most of your life is the real reason.

126

GOVERNING BODY member Carey Barber dies.

by yesidid in

jw
friends

and that's all i know.. he was 101 and appointed as a governing body member in 1977.. .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/97874/1.ashx.

yesidid.

yaddayadda

Why can't the GB retire at a certain age, say, once they hit a youthful 85 at least lol?

For how many years was Barbour so decrepid that he contributed absolutely nothing?

Pathetic in its truest sense.

1

suggestion from a current JW

by zarco in

if i may as bold as to suggest a few readings/listenings for current jws.

the "demotion" of jesus to a position far lower than what philippians 2:11 teaches is demonstrated in a talk by lt and in several "threads" by auldsoul.

links are copied below.

yaddayadda

Had a quick scroll through the first page of both clickable links, but saw nothing about Philippians 2:11. Littletoes experience goes on for over a dozen pages...