Borgia

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Posts by Borgia

• 
  10

  Achmed the Dead Terrorist

  by Bumble Bee in

  1. social
  2. humour

  did they say it would only be female virgins????

  lol.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwol4rb-go.

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  Borgia

  I had tears in my eyes in pain in my stomach for laughing.....hillarious! Keeper!

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  42

  This Graph Will Make You Think!!!!!

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://imagechan.org/img/img.php?id=2067&r=280.

  jeff .

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  Borgia

  I read the inteview with Satan, Jesus and Jehovah some days back and feel it to be the appropriate place to put the link back on. These are little gems for keeping.

  and wish you a good laugh.Enjoy

  Cheers

  Borgia

  http://www.webspawner.com/users/intsatan/
• 
  31

  lack of repentance is the ONLY ground for disfellowshipping.... really?

  by inkling in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok, so whenever i would question the justice of the df policy, i kept.

  getting the same line (even from my dad, an elder):.

  people are not disfellowshipped because of the actual sin, they are.

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  Borgia

  Mr Cano was, when caught red handed, disfellowshipped on the spot by the HQ hitteam. It is amazing how quick the whole procedure had taken place. It fuels the suspicion that such a move had not only been inspired by bringing a sinner to repentance. Far from it.

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  18

  If growth indicates god's blessing...

  by changeling in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  then how come the adventists have 15 million members and jw's only 6.7, when they originated at around the same time?

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  Borgia

  It must be miracle wheat the?

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  23

  BBC Radio 5 Live recording and transcript

  by IT Support in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  thanks for your call, peter.

  should a doctor be able to override a patients wishes?.

  lets take just one more call before we let you go.

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  Borgia

  I've got a few days to prep before I back home. I'll let you know what happens...

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  9

  Should Jehovah's Witnesses honestly expect people to Respect their Beliefs?

  by KW13 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how can jehovah's witnesses honestly be suprised when someone cannot keep their opinions to themselves and take witnesses seriously when 99.9% of them are loyal to the organization before common sense?

  (the rest of that percentage are here lol).. is this why the society put so much emphasis on the joys of persecution in the name of jehovah?

  because they know that it is being done for all the 'right' reasons?

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  Borgia

  Some beliefs are beneficial and benign. Others are outright stupid and damaging.

  We are used to donate to causes we believe in. Whether it is buying a poppy for the british legion in support of those who sacrified their lives and/or health up untill the act of self sacrifice so others may live. We may even boycot a product to enforce a change in company or even state behavior not compliant with acceped standards of human rights.

  In cases of black and white it is easy to see the benefit and damage. The believe in the afterlife not neccessarily leads to a suicide bombing. But it helps tremendously in overcoming the fear that accompanies such an act of atrocity. Concerns about a position in the afterlife of which no one knows one proven jota about, prevails over concerns in this live.

  Like the example mentioned of ms Cough who has died as a consequence of her refusal to accept a bloodtransfusion and left a husband bereft of his wife, 2 newly born childeren bereft of their mother. She did not die over a principle to the benefit of others.

  She has died over a principle damaging to herself, her entire family and not to forget medical personel.

  In this case not only her beliefs about the afterlife probably have been into play. She was told she could only please God when she would refuse a bloodtransfusion. She has not reached such a conclusion all by herself! It is the entire structure, the organised structure that comes into play.

  By accepting that the bible is the only word of God and by accepting that certain people carry the ultimate words of God, by believing these claims without a sound body of evidence, she died. Was she free to believe whatever she wants? Is het husband free to respect her wishes, though foolish they may seem? Should these tpyes of believes be respected?

  I am inclined to say no.

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  29

  Another Take On the New WT Format

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when i first heard about the change to a members only wt, i was beyond furious.

  i had gone back and forth as to whether i used to belong to a cult.

  the gb continues to isolate in their own unique way all of their flock.

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  Borgia

  Vinny,

  In these cases I would leave room for both options and not either or.

  Say watchtower runs at 25 million copies an issues. times 24. That would make 600 million copies a year.

  The private or members only watchtower needs to be published say up to 7 million copies 10 x a year. 70 million copies. (or less?)

  The public issue of the WT runs at the same number. but only 12x a year. = 300 million copies.

  That's 370 million a year. That saves 220 million copies.

  Thus this move appears to be a huge cost cutter. And it makes it easier to concentrate on disemminating the public copies not for personal use. It makes it easier to balance supply and demand.So I would expect through the KM some guidelines for the R&F..

  I agree that it makes navelstaring more of a possibility.

  As far as the generation goes: If they would apply that designation to the currenlty living annointed ones......that could them very well bring them some years down the road. (on a cynical side of things: they do believe that the annointed ones are still alive and actively participating in spreading the GN, is it not?)

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  15

  Where the Bible Got It Right- An Atheist's Perspective On Love and Altruism

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let your love be genuine.

  good verses in the bible.

  there is an old saying to the effect that the two topics you should never discuss with your friends are politics and religion.

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  Borgia

  Proplog2

  Although I find your assessment of the christian teachings to be very interesting, indeed, I do not concurr with a few of your statements:

  Without Jesus there would never have been western civilization.

  Instead, Christians, after the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) spread
  throughout the Roman empire. Some have said that the Council in
  Jerusalem was the beginning of Western Civilization. It was really
  important to quit cutting off foreskins!

  If it weren't for Christianity Europe would have become Moslem.
  Moslems would have been the only ones out there converting people
  at the edge of the sword. The Americas would have been discovered by
  someone named Mohammed.

  Western civilisation is based upon greek - roman traditions. mingled with Celtic/ Gothic/ German influences. Renaissance (1400 - 1500) has done more to Western civilisation than christianity.

  As for the spread after Acts 15. The spread had already occured before that. It was not very clear if the system of worship was to be embedded within jewish tradition or not. The latter was decided upon, which gave a huge boost to expansion. On top, the appealing feature of christianity to women was key in the spread. See, Acts

  In 732, at the battle of poitier, Charles Martel d' Anjou is thought to have stopped the islamic invasion of Europe. Not all historians agree on this given the absence of any info in arabic sources as to an invasion of france and subsequent battle of poitier. On top, the then ruling Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Mali in Damascus has told his top general that he was not interested in invading France, like he had been in invading Spain (7000 toops only, years 711 - 714) (see: Rolf Palm in his book: The Arabs.)

  Additionally, Francs were not the only inhabitants of Europe. There were Frisians, Saxons, etc. For 7000 Sarazens to take on the Francs and the the saxons alike would have been to much to take in terms of military power for conquest and occupation. (See the trouble the francs had to go through to defeat the saxons.) These people, saxons and frisians, etc were not christians at that time. Only after the Saxon defeat to Carlmagne (the francs) did they accept christianity.

  The Invasion of the spanish penisula by the Sarazens in 711, has not turned the peninsula into an islamic country for good. The same went on as it did not turn into an arian christian country just because it's rulers were arain christians (visigoths). The kingdom of Asturias was founded by a nobleman as a christian kingdom. You might say, it is the birthplace from were the reconquista has spread. Later, up untill in the 15th century, the reconquista shows a powerfull catholic christian base on the peninsula.

  On the other hand within the muslem kingdom of Cordoba etc, a relative tolerant ambiance was existent which did not harm the cooperation between the different religious groups. "El Andaluz" is still the name for that shining example. The period following, ruled by their most catholic majesties has only rendered us horrible cultural bigotries.

  So, although I agree with the muslem only evangelizing part in your post, it is in my view a bridge to far to say without christianty we would 've been......I do recognize however that the evangelizing spirit of christianty has been a powerful ally. The primary thrust of the voyages and expansions of western realms has been money.

  Towards your idea about muslems discovering the world......

  In 801 Barcelona became "french". It is not a matter of faith but a matter of military dominance whether or not a particular piece of land can be captured and held. Faith played a role in terms of mobilizing people. Expansions wars and reconnaissance voyages cost money. These were expensive. Comparable with contemporary space travel and current wars. There is always an economic rational behind it. Whether tin wars, opium wars, or oil wars. Even the conquest of spain in 711 was paid for by the vast treasures that could be captured, in terms of food, merchandise, women. The role of religion here is only to mobilize people.

  Christian doctrine has done nothing for us to get us out of the dark. Instead the discovery of classic works of the Romans and Greeks did. This same issue can be seen within muslim kingdoms at the time. Philosofy, art, poetry and other realms of science have all been influnced by works from the classical period.

  It has been on the wings of a different bird that the boost to discovery has been incited. it was a product of pagan oringin: humanism. On top, trade has done a lot to spread the idears of finding new ways to circumvent the greedy middleman.......Just economics. It is by cutting out the middle man, the muslem kingdoms, that the decline was brought about,

  Now, let's say western Europe did not turn Christian at all. What would have been left were pagan kingdoms competing with muslem kingdoms. Were would have been the crusades, the fight over "holy places"? Zionism, etc? History would have been different, but not in the sense of a muslem hegemony. I would bet the contrary! (see Jared Diamonds: Guns, Germs and Steel)

  And as far as the bible got it right.........In that case it must have been an invention of the biblewriter. Compare codex Hammurabi with the mosaic law) At any rate, sensibel things to do, are not the sole discretion of the bible,. Rather, the other way around. The bible is partly influenced by sensibel issues.

  Cheers

  Borgia.
• 
  17

  Fight or Flight - How Do You Know?

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  dear friends,.

  on principle [or obstinancy], we are determined to stand our ground and fight for what we believe in.

  on other occasions, we conclude that ours is a lost cause and that we need to take our leave of certain people and issues.. there's rarely a simple, cut-and-dry approach, but i am interested in how you've dealt with the opposites of flght and flight in your struggles.

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  Borgia

  About fight or flight:

  Maybe you need to also look at the assets and the gainings:

  What exacly is to be won? What rescources do you need to win the fight? Will you enbark on a full blown conventional war, will you use guerrilla tactics or will you be using special forces only? How much will be left after the fight/ flight? Or take the flight? To where do you retreat? It can be a powerful ally in exhausting the opponent.

  Pride is good for parades not for trenches.It makes you do stupid things. Pride is a powerful blinder!

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 
  32

  PLEASE tell me I'm crazy!!!

  by Elyse867 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so... hubby and i have been getting into discussions with a lot of people lately about the wts.

  i want so bad to know what to believe... i don't believe that the 'truth' is the one true religion anymore, but i don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to certain things... what happens to you after you die, etc.

  so, i've been praying a lot (i still believe in god) asking him to direct me somewhere, just give me something to believe in.

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  Borgia

  I want SO BAD to know what to believe... I don't believe that the 'truth' is the one true religion anymore, BUT I don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to certain things... what happens to you after you die, etc

  Elyse867,

  Believe and knowledge have something in common. The second is the basis for the first. .....So, if you want to know what happens after you die......Who is going to tell you?

  For centuries people have told eachother horrid stories about what would happend after the horizon. Some thought that you could fall off the earth and never return home. Right now, it is a proven fact that such talk is rubbish, actually quite funny and entertaining. But rubbish still. What has helped us to change our minds? One thing is sure: the bold men who defied such talk based on assuptions, were a great help in finding the right answers. Other scientific discoveries have contributed as well.

  Cheers

  Borgia