Posts by Borgia

15

Daniel 4:1-37, "Seven times"

by Son of John in

daniel 4:1-37, "seven times".

what was the tree like, before it was cut down?

the situation is described in daniel 4:11, 12:.

In addition to what Narkissos already stated: Nebu wrote a letter to all his important dudes in his realm. The matter of that letter was: Who rules in the kingdom of mankind? (The WTS tries to show that it is about UNIVERSAL rulership. That explanation goes beyound the scope of this passage. Compare Genesis after Noah left the ark. You'll find a nice little circle there about all the inhabited earth: Greece, Libya, Egypt, Arabia, Persia, Turkey. Quite limited knowledge is it not?)

The end of the letter relates to the acknowledgement Nebu makes as to WHO that ruler in the kingdom of mankind is......The GOD of HEAVEN(given his ambigious language he may relate here to the God of Daniel or his own God Marduk. But let's not spoil the pleasure with such considerations)

At any rate: this chapter opens doors to a lot of wishful thinking.

I certainly "like" the response from "bethel". FREEEEEEZE MF, don't even breathe apostate thinking or we will be kicking your apostate A** big time!

How loving, is it not?

Cheers

Borgia

44

WILL THE WATCHTOWER EVER DO THE RIGHT THING AND APOLOGIZE?

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

will this arrogant, presumptuous organization that has ruined so many lives, that loves to talk about humility and modesty, ever present a formal apology to all those who've suffered at their hands?.

would it really matter if they did?.

nvrgnbk .

Borgia

I would not discount the possibility entirely, but I do not consider it probable.

Apologies have to be followed that show repentance, no?.......turning away from bad ways?........What would then be their point of existence......none.

Private induviduals have sometimes.....is as close as it gets.

Cheers

Borgia

19

A Non-JW account of CT Russell...

by Mad in

jw
friends

>subject: fw: presby.

minister's commentary on bro.

russell.

Borgia

It was a successful but skeptical businessman of 18 that he stepped into a dingy basement to see if a handful who met there had anything more sensible than the creeds of the churches.

Sounds like a quote from Watchtower or Proclaimers book.

*** w73 7/1 p. 394 par. 5 Organized to Praise God ***(as seemingly written by Russel himself without quote reference......)

Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall in Allegheny, Pa., where I had heard that religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventism, by Jonas Wendell . .

And

Zion’s watchtower, July 15, 1906, p. 230.

Gradually I was led to see that though each of the creeds contained some elements of truth, they were, on the whole, misleading and contradictory of God’s Word. Among other theories, I stumbled upon Adventism. Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventists, the preacher being Mr. Jonas Wendell, long since deceased. Thus, I confess indebtedness to Adventists as well as to other denominations. Though his Scripture exposition was not entirely clear, and though it was far from what we now rejoice in, it was sufficient, under God, to re-establish my wavering faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible, and to show that the records of the apostles and prophets are indissolubly linked. What I heard sent me to my Bible to study with more zeal and care than ever before, and I shall ever thank the Lord for that leading; for though Adventism helped me to no single truth, it did help me greatly in the unlearning of errors, and thus prepared me for the Truth.

Therefore not quite a source from outside

Cheers

Borgia

9

Will WT "Euphrates" dry up more in 2007? (New IRS rules)

by Open mind in

first off, there's a new poster who hasn't gotten much of a welcome.

mr. born again.

he's done three posts.

Borgia

Some countries in Europe have a long standing policy of tax deductable gifts. An applicable treshhold may apply before the total becomes eligible for deduction, based of evidence: slips of direct debits, credit card payments, wiretransfers, the lot.

Of interest is to see the variance in amounts. My observation: the number of actual gifts is quite limited to a few die-hard old timers. This little group also is responsible for the substance of the gifts in general. I suspect that 80% of the amount of gifts comes from that group. The rest is caught up in taking care of kids, costs of vacations, house, car, the lot.

The assembly experience of the little kid that drops it's life savings into the box, to me is examplary of the bad shape the contribution issue is in. And it does not seem to improve......

There is another factor that may contribute to the decrease of contributions: plastic/ electronic.

1)credit cards: pay with your signature: you do not need to carry around many $
2)debit cards: pay wih your pin: you do not need to carry around many $

3)CHIP payment: some countries offer digital purse payments with a single yes or no. Again no need to carry around $.

With all plastic/digital options: tipping can be done by a top up on the bill.

Cheers

Borgia

25

Attention all Ex-JW Researchers, New Wiki Project Needs you....

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

as many of you well know the internet is quite a powerful tool.

it was the internet that allowed many of us to have the organization exposed before our very eyes for what it really was, men who had raised themselves up to the level of god.

there are just tons of ex-jw sites on the net.

Borgia

JGNAT,

today, that website was not available. It is said to be back soon.....

Drew, yes, I think it would be a good idea to have a website with facts about the WBTS and co, although I would not dismiss personal experience. I suppose there would be a way of validating an experience.

If I can be of help, let me know.

Cheers

Borgia

31

Book: The Inside Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Stevenson, 1968

by betterdaze in

the inside story of jehovah's witnesses .

stevenson, william charles, 1936- .

publisher: hart pub.

Borgia

Given the figures in the 69 WT: a 20 year groth of say a million. 200.000 unaccounted for (assumed an death rate of 1%)= left= about 20%. In comparisson: 2005 service figures show babtised almost: 3 million (10 year growth)and an increase of 4.9 to 6.4 million (1.5 million increase). So: about 50% have left!

Now let's talk about the quality of our preaching service.......

Cheers

Borgia

21

DRIVES ME NUTS!! MUST be the angels. COULDN'T be coincidence per WT.

by Open mind in

thanks to the last three paragraphs of this week's wt being devoted to complete insanity, i passed a tiny, tiny, little mile-stone in fading.

i didn't comment once during the wt!!

i usually try to make one comment that doesn't make my stomach turn too much to keep up my good, active-dub appearances.

Borgia

Angels guiding the work........

There focus on the work is of such nature that they only have time to watch the women in the cong to see the proper attitude of submission. What ever come beyound that, they have not time to waste on that.

Don't you just love those heavenly buggers.

Cheers

Borgia

18

The THIRD DIMENSION of Understanding

by Terry in

jw
friends

what could be more separate?

what could be more distinctively unalike than a cricle .

a triangle...

Borgia

Interesting analogy.

Is it not merely that people tend to be in some mood to a certain extend from one time to another. Even from one subject to another. It is always helpful to have more parties available for consultation.

Looking at something from a different angel-s, different perspective-s, inside out, outside in, short range, long range, magnified or the oposite. It certainly reminds me of the first time I confronted myself with the way the outside world looks upon the JW- movement (eufemism: eyeopener)

Cheers

Borgia

15

Does anyone else see a pattern?

by TD in

it seems to me that a repeating pattern with jw's is unfolding yet again.

i wonder if anybody else can "see" the same thing, or am i just imaginiing things?.

here's the scenario:.

Borgia

They are very good at accomodating themselves.

Whenever there is a new development, because time is running out on them on one of their long held believes, they tend to come up with some new explanation, backtrack or not, and the R&F buys it because of the "progessive" nature of the borg.

Basically, like any normal company would do. But then claiming to be gods mouthpiece........well the pet does need a name does it?

Cheers

Borgia

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

Borgia

What I always found interesting that Act 15 have Pharisees already in the steering committe of the Jerusalem church at a very early stage.

From their point of view: "christianty" must have had an appeal since it's adherent since Jerusalem are talked about as being examplary in fulfilling the requirements of the law.

Another note: From it's alledges inception up untill now there is discussion about what "christianity" really means despite or even because of Acts 15, provided there is a real meaning.

Cheers

Borgia