For those of you interested, here's a quick translation into English of the reason why: par 2.3 to 2.5
The court has considered that, taking into account the history of law, blood transfusions are to be designated as accepted medical treatment of preventive and curative nature as meant in art. 4, heading en under c, second, of the WOBKA. She has judged that the secretary has refused to consider the application on sound grounds because the appellants have indicated to refuse blood transfusions, even when a doctor may consider it necessary.
Appellants have challenged this judgement. They argue that there exist sound grounds to no longer consider blood transfusions as a curative and preventive treatment to be in the interest of the child, due to advancements of medical knowledge showing administering blood transfusions and / or products containing blood components come with serious risk while there exist other, better methods of treatment that lead to a better result.
Like the court correctly considered, the workout of the history of article 4, heading and under c, second, of the WOBKA, it is understood that current preventive and curative treatment as meant in that stipulation entails blood transfusions (chamber documents II 1987/88, 20 046, nr 6, p.31). Appellants did not substantiate their argument with objective data that the (medical) apprehension have changed and have at trial made known not to challenge current medical treatment. From the Protocol of medical treatment of under aged Jehovah's Witnesses can be derived that not in all cases there is an alternative for blood transfusions. This Protocol furnishes a procedure that can be followed in those cases lacking an alternative to blood transfusions while legal guardians/ representatives refuse consent for this treatment. The appellants have confirmed while questioned at trail that the alternatives known to them cannot be designated as accepted and current methodologies of treatment. The argument of the appellants cannot be accepted that the secretary has incorrectly refused the “permission in principle” on the ground that in certain cases adequate alternatives are available. This circumstance does not diminish that the appellants, now they are not willing to consent to have an adopted child treated with a blood transfusion, do not meet article 4, heading and under c, second, of the WOBKA, which stipulation is phrased obligatory / mandatory. The argument fails.
Borgia
Borgia
JoinedPosts by Borgia
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10
Dutch courts consider banning JW's adopting children due to blood doctrine
by inrainbows inon wednesday the dutch radd van state (council of state) heard a case regarding the adoption of children by jehovahs witnesses.. heres a rough translation of this news item;.
http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/bericht/185201.
the hague - a couple from veenendaal that are member of the jehovahs witnesses (who are against blood transfusions) cannot adopt a foreign child.
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Borgia
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Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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Borgia
Phil 2 I would say.
Maybe the comparison between Pharaoh and Joseph might work here. The god had a representative, Joseph. Only in connection to the Throne Pharao considered himself greater.
WT wizard, I would agree with you when it comes to the slapping. Please, make sure he does more than one...
Cheers
Borgia -
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THE propitiation vs A propitiation
by bite me inin reading my bible again, in mine 1 john 2:2 "he himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.".
nwt changes the to a .
that would mean that there is more than one involved, and not one and only?
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Borgia
There are more translations that use a, instead of the. It depends on the position a translator takes to emphasize we do not need another reconciliatory arrangement. “the propitiation”; abstract, as in 1Co_1:30 : He is to us all that is needed for propitiation “in behalf of our sins”; the propitiatory sacrifice, provided by the Father’s love, removing the estrangement, and appeasing the righteous wrath, on God’s part, against the sinner. Jamieson, fausset and brown commentary as shown above makes that clear.
Cheers
Borgia -
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Borgia
Good comments and interesting analysis Don Cameron!
Here are some additional comments I needed to get of my chest:
par.2 first sentence. So, if the GB says go jump...we are supposed to say: how high...
par 6: Isa. 45:14 NWT reads: This is what Jehovah has said: “The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of E·thi·o´pi·a and the Sa·be´ans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk; in fetters they will come over, and to you they will bow down. To you they will pray, [saying,] ‘Indeed God is in union with you, and there is no one else; there is no [other] God.’”
According to the context this is about Cyrus.....Now if this text really applies to the GB / FDS - should I conclude it is ok to pray to the GB in order they will convey that glory to God. Are they the middle man for the Great Crowd (it would certainly tie in with their self serving explanation of 1 Tim 2:5,6 where they insist on Jesus only mediating/ intercessing between annointed and God instead of mankind and God.
Compare Phil 2:10 : 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
and 2 Cor. 2:14 - But thanks be to God who always leads us in a triumphal procession in company with the Christ and makes the odor of the knowledge of him perceptible through us in every place!)
par 8: Zach 8:23 - accompany is something completely different from submitting
Par 9: Gal 5:22, 23 - O and now the great crowd has evidence of Gods Spirit working in them by sublimation of fruits of the spirit.....why are they not integrated into the new covenant? how do they know that it is perhaps not popular to exhibit these qualities. Given the amount of self help books etc I would wager it to be unpopular to do it the JW way!
Par 11: Buzz....words like: mostly, sometimes, often, probably = fearmongering.
Par 12: concentrate on your christian activities. We had 5 comments about disliking to go preaching but yet stubbornly going on with it. Maybe sing of the times.....O yes, of course: DO MORE.
Par 13: when people are resurrected they are imperfect human beings still......
Par 15. Note that the better resurrection is not expedited on....just on the joy part....Let's see, My joy is bigger than yours.....No mine is bigger because I was faithful....come on...
Par 16 about the bible being part of the books used for determining whether the living are worthy of eternal live. Interesting since John 3:16 - 18 says the following:
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
But of course the GB has to put their own qualifications in there....
By the way....why would God use a book that has evidently been guarded, copied and errorred by apostates (2nd century onward)
par.18: Then—at last—they will be counted worthy
It seems the requirements for the Great Crowd are way more difficult than those of the truly annointed, according the the WT that is. I would say this goes against John 1: 12, Gal.3:27 and Rom.4:23 - 5:5.
So basically, what the JW theology says it is not Jesus sacrifice that leads to eternal life but the submission to the GB/FDS......
Cheers
Borgia -
12
ninja has a question
by ninja in(mark 8:22-24) 22 now they put in at beth?sa'i?da.
here people brought him a blind man, and they entreated him to touch him.
23 and he took the blind man by the hand, brought him outside the village, and, having spit upon his eyes, he laid his hands upon him and began to ask him: do you see anything?
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Borgia
Ok. If I'd read a passage like that I would suggest that the man was said to be blind but not blind at all. He could hardly see later on because of the saliva that was in his eyes and therefore could only see trees walking about.......
A spitting image.......
Cheers
Borgia -
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How the WT will allow all to partake
by yknot inrandom memorial mainstreaming thought.
is it possible to allow all to partake and save face and authority?.
then it occured to me that yes, and quite simply too.. ahh new .
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Borgia
The fateful and desecrate slut may receive some new light based on rev 7. The 144.000 can still be maintained as a literal number because they are taken of a tribe. this tribe does not by necessity constitute only 12.000 people but will include many more since they are taken of the tribe, not the tribe as a whole. This again joins with Ez. 47:21-23 where sojourners will receive a place in the midst of the 12 tribes as an inheritance. Thus, they become full members of the nation as if they where born into that nation.
Such an approach ties in better with Gal 3, Rev 7:14, John 3:16 - 18. It will explain why a smaller group goes to heaven and still the outlook for earthly life can be maintained. However, it makes the requirement and impact set out in 1 John 5: 1, 11, 12, 20 more easily to understand.
However, since they've put the door open, if you'd like to partake, they are out of excuses to withhold you.
Bon apetite.
Cheers
Borgia -
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Borgia
Apparently.....the evidence suggests......apparently.
Cheers
Borgia -
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How did you build a new life outside of the JWs?
by Sirona in"if you leave jehovah's organisation, where will you go?".
no doubt many of us have been asked that question.
so where did you "go" when you left the jws?
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Borgia
Good questions Sirona, 1) About building a life after....No, whiole I am on the way out I already have built a non jw-related live. Family and old and new friends on the outside, interest and time to learn new skills. But maybe most important, the latitude to get to better know myself. Maybe that is the advantage of fading.....
2) There are many ways to meet new people. But maybe I'm lucky with my job that entails meeting new people in new environments. But I would say that there are many rewarding things outside there to do that will get you to meet new people.
3) The spirituality the JW like to encourage is preparing for doing more. They are focussed on function...i.e. meaning, however it is detached from any regular experience of life. I'm not in communicado with the spirit world. I do not believe in that. I'd rather speak of raising conscienceness.
4) SWOT yourself and take it from there....however, even Rome was not built in a day......
Cheers
Borgia -
24
Jehovah's Witnesses - A Hijacked Religion
by B_Deserter inthe more and more i read about the history of the witnesses, the more i don't see them as one in the same as charles t. russell's religion.
i think the religious movement from 1874 to 1916 was completely different than the one from 1918 to now.
rutherford is the real founder of jehovah's witnesses.
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Borgia
Catbert,
In 1918 Russel was dead meat.....
Cheers
Borgia -
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Jehovah's Witnesses - A Hijacked Religion
by B_Deserter inthe more and more i read about the history of the witnesses, the more i don't see them as one in the same as charles t. russell's religion.
i think the religious movement from 1874 to 1916 was completely different than the one from 1918 to now.
rutherford is the real founder of jehovah's witnesses.
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Borgia
Hijacked is quite a fitting description. I have called Rutherford's enterprise a coup d'etat. Either way, the basic is that the JW have lead people away from the doctrine that Russel had an argument about: the ransom. JW doctrine is withholding people from really using it (if you believe you need it, that is)
He went about his business in quite a clever way, never a big change all at once, but over the course of time. For an example: elder positions. Given the nature of the position any opposition would be rooted out before it could spring up. The same goes for ownership of kingdom halls, etc.
However, I wonder what would happen if opposition would spring up in a coordinated and massive way.....? can that be done?
Cheers
Borgia