"Flee from divisions, as the beginning of evils. You must all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed the Father, and follow the presbytery as you would the apostles; respect the deacons as the commandment of God. Let no one do anything that has to do with the church without the bishop. Only that Eucharist which is under the authority of the bishop (or whomever he himself designates) is to be considered valid. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the congregation (pléthos) be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic church (katholiké ekklesia). It is not permissible either to baptize or to hold a love feast without the bishop. But whatever he approves is also pleasing to God, in order that everything you do may be trustworthy and valid" (Ignatius, Smyrnaeans 8:1-2).
It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
(Had to point out the change in the sentence structure between the lastest quote and the intial posting...don't know how that happened) Very interesting. I have never read Ignatius.
My thoughts: where in the Bible is instruction to only have eucharist(or the word "eucharist" for that matter) under the authority of the bishop(which I understand to mean Elder) to be "valid"? Or a baptism or lovefeast.(Where does it encourage love feasts for that matter?)Sounds like this guy is making up his own rules for one reason or another.Just like theologians make up words like "trinity". Why do they feel the need to use other words? Were Jesus' words too simple and clear for them?
Sincere men often become puffed up and self important, making rules and controlling things. Pharisees, "The Governing Body", even Martin Luther comes to mind. In the end he actually had someone put to death! Find the scriptural permission for that!
I always understood the word "saint" to mean true believer (in that scripture reads that someone would ask for someone else to "Greet the saints" for them. (I'm pretty sure it was used in the old testament in some form or another-just don't remember the specific)Meaning I don't think when the word saint is used it refers to dead people who are awaiting resurrection like everyone else.
I like that the point was made that believers were not instructed to build or buy buildings for their gatherings. From what I read they met in homes. When there was a large gathering they used a public forum, possibly renting(but who knows)
.*steps up to her soapbox* It seems to me that is when a "church" first goes astray. They have a homegroup which grows, and instead of splitting into two homegroups impacting TWO neighborhoods, the thermometer goes up and they start to buy a place! Next thing you know, they have programs to utilize that empty building. Where is THAT in scripture? Life revolves around the clubhouse instead of being neighborhood-centric which puts the believer out where there are unbelievers, and able to help..Tithes go to building instead of to the poor, or to help widow & orphans, which as we all know is what Peter called "pure and undefiled religion".*clears throat, steps off soapbox*
