if you could sum up your time in the borg with just one word, what would it be and why?.
for me it would be guilt.
guilt about not doing enough ministry, not enough study,doing too much secular work, the list seems endless.on the odd occasions i felt i'd done quite well you can bet we'd have a talk saying more,more more!.
I also vote "repression"!
Some of my earliest memories are of repressing my real self to fit into the Witness mold.
"No, you may not play with the little neighbor girl. She is worldly and we don't associate with those people."
That happened when I was about 5, I think. I have a very clear memory of that. And my internal response of "That's stupid!" was repressed and I started down a long path of hypocrisy and repression. {sigh}
i once talked to a jw about disfellowshipping and was curious to how can this be showing a christly love when you all out turn your back on them.
he gave me an answer about rightousness and unrightrousness having no fellowship (which is biblical) but it didnt make sense to me.
didnt seem applicable in many ways.
"Jehovah's clean people"?
Sorry - but that is a loaded description. The organization is rotten from the core.
There may be many, many people involved with JW's who are only trying to do the right thing with their life. They many truly be drawn to God and want to learn more about him, etc. etc. It sounds like you are one of these, anewme.
But I personally will never understand why people stay with the JW's or try to return to them after learning all of their false prophecies and incorrect doctrines, not to mention their flip-flopping on critical issues, the list goes on and on...
I was born and raised in the JW faith and I had to leave everything behind to try and stake out a normal, healthy life for myself. D'fing and love? Give me a freakin' break. It's a tool used to keep control - it may sound good on the surface - but in reality it's a shameful practice.
Being treated as well as you report, anewme, is something I never saw or experienced in all my years with the JW's. Furthermore, even after being reinstated, people were always marked. Whispers, gossip... Disgusting!
I am really not trying to attack anyone with this post - it just stirs up bad feelings and makes me very frustrated. So please don't take offense.
one thing that always pissed me off was when "faithful wives" used to blame their "unbelieving husbands" for making them celebrate birthdays, exchange xmas gifts, go to "worldly" get togethers, play the lottery, etc.
The levels of hypocrisy start at the top and trickle all the way down to the rank and file. There are literally too many to name. The fact that hypocrisy permeates the Witness beliefs and lifestyle does set them apart.
I never could stomach the smugness of the various people in the congregations I grew up in. Not everyone was a hypocrite. Some tried very hard to be "good Witnesses" - this was because they were good people at heart. At least from what I could tell.
Some things that stick out in my mind concerning small hypocrisies...my parents allowing me to watch White Christmas and It's A Wonderful Life because they loved those movies growing up - but Christmas IS WRONG....my parents allowing me to watch The Wonderful Wizard of Oz with all its witches and magic...but I wasn't allowed to read/watch anything that had magic because that was demonic... WTF?
Just small things really ... but they represent, to me, a larger problem within the Witness lifestyle. Go figure.
my brother is a self proclaimed apostate.
i see now that there is a wide variety of posters here.
so to those that have left the witnesses what would it take to get you back?
I was born and raised as a Witness. I will never again seek to become one of their members. I left because time after time after time I saw proof that the Witnesses are not God's people as they claim.
The elders did not have God's holy spirit. They were either drunk with power, sleeping with another elder's wife or a good man who was miserable and couldn't figure out why.
The large majority of the "friends" were not loving and supportive of one another. They were backbiting and cliquish. Gossip and in fighting was the name of the game. These observations come from more than one congregation over a long period of time. Not a fluke.
I saw a dear friend nearly come apart mentally when, after her drunken husband chased her around the house with a sledgehammer, the elders asked her "what had she done to make him angry?" and was read scriptures counseling wives to be obidient with their husbands.
The list goes on and on and on... Its a thin shell of "theocratic harmony" over a mass of unhappiness and corruption.
Notice that I haven't even touched on the issues with doctrines taught by the Witnesses. I left solely on the belief that I would only ever find hurt and pain and betrayal from this group. It took months before I was brave enough to come to these websites and start investigating the history of the Society. The history that you never seem to hear very much about when you are in the org.
It was a revelation. It confirmed everything I already knew in my heart.
LeftBehind...I don't know what I can really tell you about your brother. I see that you are very upset and very hurt about his leaving the organization. No matter what the situation, it's always useful to try and see the other's person point of view. Talk to him. Really listen to his answers. Think about them with your heart and your mind - not with the pattened answers that the Society teaches.
I wish you well.
ok so its nearly christmass and i'm thinking of celebrating it for the first time, but i feel alittle wrong in doing so, i know all the witness reasoning of why its wrong and just wondered what your reasons are as to why its right!.
i have a 3 year old little girl and would love to make it nice for her (tho my family would go mad!
) im thinking of getting a baby tree (one that can easily be hidden!
Why celebrate Christmas? For me it is the connection to others and to the past. I focus on the giving part of the holiday, the time spent with friends, and now with the new family that's come to me through my marraige. I've slowly become more comfortable with the religous aspects of the holiday.
In my heart I honor all the of the contributing factors to the celebration of Christmas as we now know it, be they pagan, Christian or secular. I think its the last great festival we allow ourselves in the US nowadays and it's also a time to go a bit over the top. It's a way to embrace life and most of all, to me at least, to appreciate children. They are what really makes the holidays shine!
As others have said, do only what you are comfortable with. But don't let fear hold you back from trying. You might enjoy volunteering some time or funds to a local charity or cause. Giving can bring such a wonderful feeling. It's addictive, actually!
I know that the JW's scoff at this particular Christmas sentiment and say things along the lines of "bringing the truth to people all year round is more important than showering them with gifts once a year, blah, blah, blah..."
I say that if the giving is sincere than it's a good thing. I say that I'd rather see an outpouring of people trying to do the right thing once a year than them living in a joyless JW stupor 365. Just my opinion.
Christmas has helped fill up the emptiness I was left with after leaving the JW's. It's just a piece to the puzzle of what's helped me form a new life away from my upbringing, but I think it's an important one.
do jw youths understand that if they just didn't get baptized their parents would not be able to shun them later?
they must be able to see how this works in other families.
is it feasable for a jw teen to reject baptism?
I grew up in a congregation with lots of young people around my own age. I think the first round of baptisms were at the age of 13. I knew that it was going to be noticeable if I put off getting baptised.
I wanted to fly under the radar, so to speak. As others have expressed, I wanted to keep my parents off my back. So I studied that stupid little book and sat on our porch with two elders and aced those questions - oh how those elders grinned at that clever little girl!
I stood up with all the other baptismal candidates at the Romeoville, IL assembly hall and answered yes to the questions asked of us. In my heart, I was terrified. With my lips I answered "Yes" to that booming voice from the mircrophone - With my heart I said "NO!" I remember waiting for something to happen to me, because I was standing there lying to God. I didn't really expect a bolt of lightning, but I was relieved when the moment passed and I was still there, and no one knew my secret heart.
That whole experience is like a dream to me. I wish I had never done it. But at that age I didn't actively plan to leave the JW's - I was kind of floating along. I was only 14 - I hadn't hit the really rebellious years yet. If I'd waited even until I was 16, I never would have gone through with it.
how will it affect you?.
aa's thread on scientist's "creating" life got me to thinking about how people would react if life was discovered on other planets or solar systems.
the movie "contact" explored that some along with how faith and science combat but yet complement each other.. would life on other planets pretty much destroy much of earth's religious myths?
Do I think that the discovery of life on another planet than earth will change people's religous beliefs?
I think that it will be an earth shattering event for some people, causing a catalyst in whatever belief system they've held prior to that point. Others will be fence sitters, going back and forth about how the news affects their faiths. And then there will be the ones who DENY everything, claiming government conspirarcy, etc., etc. And there will be others that fall in between these groups or other options I haven't thought of, of course...
I don't know how the WTBTS would react - but I can bet that however they respond it will be in a way calculated to maintain or even strengthen their hold over the "flock". Another day, another pack of lies - it's all part of the program...
I grew up being taught that reports of "alien encounters" was the work of demons. I still have qualms about this from time to time now, but I view this as a superstition, something to be cast off.
I sincerely believe that there is more to this planet, let alone the space surrounding us, than any of us will ever know or see discovered in our lifetime. I try to keep an open mind without getting silly about it.
Great topic!
this is what i am worried will be going through my mind in less then a month.
i have always wanted a big christmas tree but since i was a full fledged jw till 5 yrs ago i never had one.
i just last year was able to get a small table top tree for christmas.
Some funny posts here! The idea of throwing a sheet over the Christmas tree when you have visitors made me think of the following option - if asked about the tree say "I was going to cover it up, but I didn't want to be guilty of hiding my light underneath a bushell!"
Seriously - I sympathize with your dilemna! I don't have to worry about my parents or family or any JWs stopping by to see me house all decked out for Christmas. Only once did that happen, when my dad came over to tell me that the family wasn't coming to my wedding. (Last time I saw him too - maybe the lights on the house freaked him out...lol
I say that if you can - embrace the season and experience all the joy you can from it. Witnesses lead such joyless lives. It seems to me that the celebration of Christmas is a polar opposite to the typical Witness mentality. IMHO.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
it is for me.
i find that when i tell a person exactly how witnesses think and why they believe in things the certain way they do, it feels good!
listening to myself express the craziness of the religion makes me abhor their practices and mind control.
I have always gotten a real satisfaction from educating others about the realities of the Witness "faith". My co-workers and my friends all know how I was raised and I dole out little pieces, a bit here, a bit there, so as not to overwhelm them with how weird the belief system was.
I've always felt that if something I say to these people keeps them or someone they love from harms way - from the JW way - then I've done something worthwhile. Of course, I occasionally still hear the little voice in my head - the one programmed there by the dubs, "You are giving a bad witness for Jehovah!" ICK! I keep on talking anyway.
here is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
Wow. Reading the comments made by the JW's is sickening - literally - it makes me sick to my stomach.
They are very proud of themselves, aren't they? I pity them. I despise them. I laugh at them. I just wanta smack'em!
My personal opinion is to not waste any time attempting to argue with them - those people wasted enough of my life. I don't want to hear their "S@*T For Brains" platitudes any more. Been there, done that, got the crappy T-Shirt! (Borrowed that last line from another poster LOL!)
