Posts by daniel-p

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

Is not this a criminal action on the part of the society?

Not at all. There are many instances where plants continue operations while out of compliance with certain regulations. Government will often give you a choice: bring it into compliance or pay the fine. A frequent example is that of pollution-generating companies that choose to pay a fine for excessive contaminants from their smoke stacks instead of installing expensive filters. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis to determine the more cost-effective outcome for the proerty owner. The Society chooses to pay a fine for being out of compliance with their E Res building rather than removing the fifth floor, for obvious practical reasons. I don't know the exact amount... I believe I heard a number used like $40,000 or something, but of course this could be very innacurate.

Enforcement of local land use regulations is a patch-work system, where jurisdictions vary in their ability and willingness to enforce every component of their municipal code. One reason is that it's just too labor-intensive to keep tabs on every property in a city or county and then try to bring those properties into compliance. It's just not worth it for many jurisdictions, unless people start showing up at council meetings and complaining about it publicly. However, with the Wallkill complex being quite a high-profile operation in that neck of the woods, it wasn't a surprise that they were penalized for building a fifth floor without the permits for doing so.

53

Author of the book "J.W.s and the hour of darkness" Darek Barefoot speaks up on the conference call concerning subliminal images in the Watchtower lit.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

darek barefoot, author of the book "jehovah's witnesses and the hour of darkness" will be one of our quests on the six screens conference call on saturday june 6,2009 at 7 p.m.est.

darek barefoot, a former jehovah's witness was ostracized from the organization for trying to expose the truth about the occultic influence in the watchtower organization.

his book documents the existence of disguised, or "subliminal"images in watchtower illustrations, and further demonstrated that these images were occultic, being drawn from witchcraft and demonology.

daniel-p

As an avid listener to Rick's calls, I've heard all kinds of great information and have met some great people on there. In fact, he has spoken of many important issues, ones in which you mention. How many times have YOU actually listened in on a call? I admit I'm halfers on the subliminal images issue, though some are compelling, but nevertheless if you don't agree then that's YOUR deal. The fact remains that even though some of Rick's conference call topics have been considered controversial, there have been many others that are dead on and informative. The reality is that he's doing a great service and allowing people (including active JW's) to voice their concerns/opinions. He's very fair on the calls and gives everyone a chance to voice their opinion. If you don't like what he's doing, then move on and do your own thing. BTW, what are YOU doing for the JW community? Maybe we can tear down your "outreach" to them? Nah jk

I may have been out of line by saying "ONLY concerned with sensational stories." That was an exageration. However, to include these sensational stories detracts from what otherwise may be an effective effort to spread the word.

Also, just because something is said to be "controversial," doesn't mean there is a legitimate debate about it. That's giving one side WAY too much credit. I can say the moon is made of cheese, but just because I call my statement "controversial" doesn't mean there's REALLY two sides to the issue. It just means I'm an idiot and have no objectivity.

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this? Just another example of it being a man-made org and not a divine one IMO.....wf

It actually reveals a kind of "shoot-from-the-hip" mentality of the decision makers. Perhaps its a side effect of their good-ole-boy system, I don't know. But in any case, they've been making some pretty inconsistent decisions lately. Remember DUMBO? So here they are saying they're gonna leave Brooklyn, but then they announce some new huge residence building in DUMBO. Now that's scrapped, they say they're gonna move out of Brooklyn to Wallkill and Patterson. They try to buy hundreds of acres in Ramapo, but their plans sputter. Meanwhile, in Europe they close Spanish Bethel and move everything to England.

Now they say (rumored anyway) they're going to move all printing to Canada. All I can say is, what the hell is going on? Could all this be due to power struggles within the GB and the new generation of members taking over from the old? I don't know, but it's pretty intriguing.

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

Also, Ontario's loaded with the pulp and paper industry. It makes sense to move printing there since it'll reduce cost of shipping.

That's a point to consider, however, why would they move ALL North American printing to Canada after investing in so much expansion at Wallkill and attempting to buy more land at Ramapo?

When I was at Wallkill Bethel in 2000/01, they were in the middle of a ton of expansion: at least two new large residence buildings, a new kitchen, a new dining room, a new laundry, a new lobby and visitor center, and, of course, the printery expansion which came a couple years later with the new LITHOMAN printers worth tens of millions of dollars EACH.

I can't see them recouping their investment in the Wallkill property should they up and leave--in this economy, who would have a use for such a massive complex? Not only is the economy a significant worry, but there are other considerations such as land use regulations that would affect a new owner. The Watchtower may have gotten away with loose land use regulations due to certain allowances being grandfathered in, but with a new owner, all the new environment/land use/zoning regulations would apply. For example, the "E Res" is one story too high for zoning regs and the Society pays a penalty every year for being out of compliance. A new owner would probably be required to bring the property into compliance, or be assessed at a higher penalty or something. I obviously don't know all the requirements of the relevant jurisdiction, but these are the kinds of things that would affect the Society's ability to sell the property for a decent price. It is also uncertain whether a new owner would still be able to use the property for similar purposes (i.e. light manufacturing).

Anyway, this raises a lot of questions. With no printing in the US, they don't need Wallkill. And who would buy it? This is a massive complex that would only be compatible with a few uses, and not all would be welcome to the community.

25

If the Bank mistakenly put 3 million in your account would you tell!

by Witness 007 in

new zealand afew weeks ago....a young couple with a failing small buisness ask the bank for an overdraft, which gets screwed up giving them afew million in the bank instead....they quietly withdraw the money and disappear overseas.....would you?.

daniel-p

Wouldn't be worth being on the run for your entire life. No way. You can put in a lot less hard work than that and make the same amount through legitimate means, if you really want to. $3 million really isn't that much when you think about it.

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

It would not be the first time that they said one thing while planning something different

This could not have been in their plans... maybe it's a preemptive strike against Bethelites who want to initiate a class-action lawsuit due to being kicked out with no benefits to speak of.

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

This will also enable them to lay off hundreds of more workers during the transition, simultaneously securing free health care for the remaining Bethelites.

95

I just heard of more organizational changes...........

by awildflower in

so a good friend of mine e-maild me today with this information.

aparently brother hurd says as of 2010 all the magazine printing and distribution will be moved to canada.

the only printing the us will do is the books.

daniel-p

In Canada Bethelites will get Universal Health Care courtesy of the State

Good lord. If this is, indeed, the reason to move, it shows just how much liability they expect due to laying off Bethelites: A LOT!

With all the very recent investment in property and improvements in and near Wallkill, I'd say this is a very recent decision by the GB.

53

Author of the book "J.W.s and the hour of darkness" Darek Barefoot speaks up on the conference call concerning subliminal images in the Watchtower lit.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

darek barefoot, author of the book "jehovah's witnesses and the hour of darkness" will be one of our quests on the six screens conference call on saturday june 6,2009 at 7 p.m.est.

darek barefoot, a former jehovah's witness was ostracized from the organization for trying to expose the truth about the occultic influence in the watchtower organization.

his book documents the existence of disguised, or "subliminal"images in watchtower illustrations, and further demonstrated that these images were occultic, being drawn from witchcraft and demonology.

daniel-p

So in the above discussion with Randall Waters, we have some bethelite old timers who chat about subliminal messages, but repeatedly say they didn't do it, never saw anyone do it, and didn't know anyone who could have done it.

And yet people can't help but hypothesize about it. Everyone says thery're "no conspiracy theorist," but then says something like "the images are unmistakable when pointed out." Well, duh. Anything is unmistakable when pointed out, because at that point your brain is filling in all the logical gaps in the image to form a unified whole.

53

Author of the book "J.W.s and the hour of darkness" Darek Barefoot speaks up on the conference call concerning subliminal images in the Watchtower lit.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

darek barefoot, author of the book "jehovah's witnesses and the hour of darkness" will be one of our quests on the six screens conference call on saturday june 6,2009 at 7 p.m.est.

darek barefoot, a former jehovah's witness was ostracized from the organization for trying to expose the truth about the occultic influence in the watchtower organization.

his book documents the existence of disguised, or "subliminal"images in watchtower illustrations, and further demonstrated that these images were occultic, being drawn from witchcraft and demonology.

daniel-p

It's funny looking at the pictures in that link because, with it all in French, I can't read what they're pointing out, so my mind has no suggestion to see the images with, and thus I see nothing in them.