james_woods

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Posts by james_woods

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  17

  WT elder school Pittsburg PA in Jan 1970

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  have been gone from the board for a month or so, but i have read with great interest some of the stories about very recent "elder" schools from actual attendees.

  i thought some might like to know about my experience in one of these in the very early 70's.

  i was pioneering where the need was great (clinton, okla.) and was made assistant cong.

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  james_woods

  Have been gone from the board for a month or so, but I have read with great interest some of the stories about very recent "Elder" schools from actual attendees. I thought some might like to know about my experience in one of these in the very early 70's. I was pioneering where the need was great (Clinton, Okla.) and was made Assistant Cong. Servent because we were sort of in-between special pioneers at the time. Anyway at 20yrs old I got the invite to go to one of these "schools". Some may not know that early on, many of these 2 week sessions were held at a sort of "super kingdom hall" (it had a real auditorium, library, and a big basement with a commercial style kitchen and dining room) in Pittsburg, Penn. I think the story was that they had not yet bought the Squibb buildings and were short of space at real Bethel. We roomed with local JW families as 1 or 2 per home and showed up during the day for classes. They had bethel boys to cook and clean at the hall except weekends when we were expected to volunteer and cook for ourselves.

  The two instructors were a guy named (M.something?) Davis and the eventual GB member Shroeder. It has been way too long to remember the actual content of the class, but it sounds an awful lot just like what a recent Elder wrote up for us last month. I can remember a few REALLY silly things that happened, however...

  * First, this Davis fellow talked and acted very much like the notorious actor Paul Lynde who used to be center box on the Hollywood squares. Very full of himself and sort of (you-know-maybe a little light in the loafers...). At least the sessions he did relieved the boredom because of his silly antics. The main thing I remember was how much utter contempt he had for the ordinary rank and file. He ranted and raved about how "phony" and "worldly" witness families were who actually had real jobs, houses, etc. Made a big deal about how these people had the husband with some big huge Cadillac and his trophy wife had her little "SPORT JITNEY" (yes he actually used words like that all the time), with a big house and a pool. Little did he know (I hoped) that my dad had a caddy, my mom had a pontiac GP, and I was driving a new 1969 Porsche 911. And we had a pool, too - they used to do the batism there.

  * Shroeder (maybe I am spelling it wrong) was another case entirely. He seemed to take great pride in the ability to remember page and paragraph on practically every publication for the past 15 years and would quote them without using an index to wow us...don't remember him quoting the actual bible that much however. He had a car and a private apartment there, I saw him drive up in a big Buick Electry 225 and asked him about it. He said "well, the society has a few cars for general use of any bethel members who needed one". He also had a little kid named Benjamin about 10 or 11 as I recall and was grooming him to also be a walking Watchtower index.

  * My big bug (at the time) was that I could not get a handle on why they had crammed the Jehovah name everywhere through the New Testament. I had had to try and explain this to a college professor back in Clinton-Weatherford and he pretty much reamed me good and proper. So I go ask the mighty Shroeder and got told essentially to mind my own business because the translation committee knew exactly what they were doing. Also got told that doing outside research on my own was bad news and reading older literature could spoil your faith;. Further got told that they had to purge the Society Library from time to time of "UNHEALTHY" reference materials... once a bethel guy got started reading some of these and he went crazy and left bethel and had to be DFd. YIKES!!

  * One Saturday we had a little witness bus tour of the area (we paid 5$ or so each). Here we got to see some of the old halls where Russel used to preach (they were now some other church) and the actual grave of Russell and the weird pyramid. Got a serious lecture back at school about not being stumbled by the pyramid or any other "old light" because now the FDS has the "new light" - BUT, Shroeder did tacitly admit that Russell had some nutty ideas on CHRONOLOGY!!! Then in defiance of his policy of no outside research made us go to the University of Pittsburgh as a special project and look up various (pre-selected) newspaper microfilm about Russell.

  * Also remember that as I was only 20 I could not go drinking at night after class with all the 3 other elders in my carpool so they would go into a tavern and leave me to freeze my azz off in the car for an hour or two every night. But, I was allowed to rent the car and drive them all home and around. My host family dad would give me beers when I got home though and the dad was a computer scientist with a big car and big house. I don't think he made very much FS time and did not see him going to many meetings either. He-He...

  OK, too long already but thought I would put down some of the crazy history of this little back-water school...

  James over and out.
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  9

  Elder school in Pittsburg PA early 70's

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have been gone from the board for a month or so, but i have read with great interest some of the stories about very recent "elder" schools from actual attendees.

  i thought some might like to know about my experience in one of these in the very early 70's.

  i was pioneering where the need was great (clinton, okla.) and was made assistant cong.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  james_woods

  Have been gone from the board for a month or so, but I have read with great interest some of the stories about very recent "Elder" schools from actual attendees. I thought some might like to know about my experience in one of these in the very early 70's. I was pioneering where the need was great (Clinton, Okla.) and was made Assistant Cong. Servent because we were sort of in-between special pioneers at the time. Anyway at 20yrs old I got the invite to go to one of these "schools". Some may not know that early on, many of these 2 week sessions were held at a sort of "super kingdom hall" (it had a real auditorium, library, and a big basement with a commercial style kitchen and dining room) in Pittsburg, Penn. I think the story was that they had not yet bought the Squibb buildings and were short of space at real Bethel. We roomed with local JW families as 1 or 2 per home and showed up during the day for classes. They had bethel boys to cook and clean at the hall except weekends when we were expected to volunteer and cook for ourselves.

  The two instructors were a guy named (M.something?) Davis and the eventual GB member Shroeder. It has been way too long to remember the actual content of the class, but it sounds an awful lot just like what a recent Elder wrote up for us last month. I can remember a few REALLY silly things that happened, however...

  * First, this Davis fellow talked and acted very much like the notorious actor Paul Lynde who used to be center box on the Hollywood squares. Very full of himself and sort of (you-know-maybe a little light in the loafers...). At least the sessions he did relieved the boredom because of his silly antics. The main thing I remember was how much utter contempt he had for the ordinary rank and file. He ranted and raved about how "phony" and "worldly" witness families were who actually had real jobs, houses, etc. Made a big deal about how these people had the husband with some big huge Cadillac and his trophy wife had her little "SPORT JITNEY" (yes he actually used words like that all the time), with a big house and a pool. Little did he know (I hoped) that my dad had a caddy, my mom had a pontiac GP, and I was driving a new 1969 Porsche 911. And we had a pool, too - they used to do the batism there.

  * Shroeder (maybe I am spelling it wrong) was another case entirely. He seemed to take great pride in the ability to remember page and paragraph on practically every publication for the past 15 years and would quote them without using an index to wow us...don't remember him quoting the actual bible that much however. He had a car and a private apartment there, I saw him drive up in a big Buick Electry 225 and asked him about it. He said "well, the society has a few cars for general use of any bethel members who needed one". He also had a little kid named Benjamin about 10 or 11 as I recall and was grooming him to also be a walking Watchtower index.

  * My big bug (at the time) was that I could not get a handle on why they had crammed the Jehovah name everywhere through the New Testament. I had had to try and explain this to a college professor back in Clinton-Weatherford and he pretty much reamed me good and proper. So I go ask the mighty Shroeder and got told essentially to mind my own business because the translation committee knew exactly what they were doing. Also got told that doing outside research on my own was bad news and reading older literature could spoil your faith;. Further got told that they had to purge the Society Library from time to time of "UNHEALTHY" reference materials... once a bethel guy got started reading some of these and he went crazy and left bethel and had to be DFd. YIKES!!

  * One Saturday we had a little witness bus tour of the area (we paid 5$ or so each). Here we got to see some of the old halls where Russel used to preach (they were now some other church) and the actual grave of Russell and the weird pyramid. Got a serious lecture back at school about not being stumbled by the pyramid or any other "old light" because now the FDS has the "new light" - BUT, Shroeder did tacitly admit that Russell had some nutty ideas on CHRONOLOGY!!! Then in defiance of his policy of no outside research made us go to the University of Pittsburgh as a special project and look up various (pre-selected) newspaper microfilm about Russell.

  * Also remember that as I was only 20 I could not go drinking at night after class with all the 3 other elders in my carpool so they would go into a tavern and leave me to freeze my azz off in the car for an hour or two every night. But, I was allowed to rent the car and drive them all home and around. My host family dad would give me beers when I got home though and the dad was a computer scientist with a big car and big house. I don't think he made very much FS time and did not see him going to many meetings either. He-He...

  OK, too long already but thought I would put down some of the crazy history of this little back-water school...

  James over and out.
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  29

  Is it possible for the WT society to ever convince us of true reform?

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i got to thinking about this and for me anyway, they would have to come clean on at least the following things:.

  an honest retraction must be made on all the ridiculous chronology (of course including the false prophecies).

  by this i mean, stop this psuedo numerology stuff of adding up this or that date, adding on x many years, etc.

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  james_woods

  I got to thinking about this and for me anyway, they would have to come clean on at least the following things:

  An honest retraction must be made on ALL the ridiculous chronology (of course including the false prophecies). By this I mean, stop this psuedo numerology stuff of adding up this or that date, adding on X many years, etc. and then coming up with "end of the Gentile times", "reign of Christ", etc. Admit that a lot of this got copied from previously flawed logic from the Adventists in the 19th century, and come clean on the fact that Russel himself was a pretty whacked out pyramid chronologist. I think the friends deserve the (real) truth that NONE of these dates was ever based on any kind of logic at all, let alone inspiration. HINT - do like R. Franz did and check out the historical basis of even your starting point (as if the tortured logic to follow would ever work if you HAD the right starting point!).

  Second, give up on trying to convince everybody that you have divine inspiration. The facts are that the society (GB or whatever) has had to CHANGE THEIR STORY too many times for this to hold water at all. This would lay the basis to let go of a lot of really silly beliefs...HINT - remember that at the time Rutherford thought up the [great crowd] you were building a house in SoCal for Daniel and the other men of old! Isn't it a little arrogant to think YOU are of the "144000" but not most of the historical bible writers?

  Third, quit giving out "divine direction" on things that are up to individual conscience. Lets face it, smoking may be bad for your health, but it is not "demonism", or hard drugs, nor is it addressed in the scripture. Neither is the idea that vaccinication is wrong, nor is the concept of blood transfusion as a medical procedure. Further, as I see it, there is not much said on a christians relation to the government beyond having decent respect for proper laws and using your own good sense. HINT - remember how you guys wrote that people who went to prison over the draft just did it out of their own conscience and not because you told them to? That is a lie, but maybe you SHOULD have left it up to their conscience.

  There are certainly many more items worth a mention, but aren't just these three such a heavy burden that WT will almost certainly never get them through the gate?

  Just my random thoughts on what it might take to get this org back on track...

  James
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  10

  In Field Service was it

  by oldflame in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  .

  when you went door to door did you find it easier to begin discussions easier with women or men ?.

  i found it much easier with females than with males.

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  james_woods

  Once in Bethany, Okla I was pioneering like a good boy, and got a young housewife at the door. Went into playback mode and she just stood there listening. Pretty soon out of the corner of my eye, I see about a 3-alarm grease fire started on her stove through the front porch window. I point it out to her, and she goes back to fight it. She must have actually let me BS her practically to the point of burning down her house with the bacon! And, just because she was being polite.

  So, then do I actually help her? NOOO - had more doors to go to. Just zombie walked back up to the street to the next victim.

  Hope she knew to use an extinguisher or cover with a pan instead of water...

  James
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  37

  JW Urban Ledgends - Fact or Fiction?

  by clear2c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  growing up as a jehovahs wittness my parents used to rationalize or have a urban ledgends reguarding why we could not do something or why something was evil/bad.

  some of these i have heard in various forms around here in the forums.

  here are some expamples of what i mean.

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  james_woods

  Don't know if this one made it to the thread, but in the mid 60's a real scare went out about candy bars. Turns out most of them (milky way, etc) on the ingredients part of the label had something called "lecithan". Anyway, this took on wings of its own and finally the city overseer had to call up to the service department and check it out. They decided it just meant animal fat or some such so that it was OK to eat a chocolate bar after all.
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  37

  The Watchtower Caste System & How We All Bought Into It

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were a jw, you know that everything hinged upon getting privileges, doing more, climbing the theocratic ladder.

  if we "made it" to ministerial servant, our goal was to reach out and be an elder.

  if we were part of a family that had an elder, m.s.

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  james_woods

  Back in the days before the elder arrangement, there were a few guys who were not really committee members but who were kind of on the "A" team for getting speaking parts at the assemblies. Now maybe this is just an Okla City thing, but several of my teenage friends and I started noticing that these guys had taken on a sort of "look"...they almost all had the superslick hair style (sort of like the young Conway Twitty), light pastel suits, white shoes, white belt, etc. We made up the name "pretty boys" for these sort of people. But, for a long time these guys would get the plum speaking parts, pantomime parts in the "dramas", etc...even if their field service was pretty much nonexistent. Finally one really decent older district servant just put out the word that he did not want any more people up on stage that looked like a cheap TV evangelical and "pretty boy" style suddenly died out. Many of these people ended up kicked out (DF) for extramarital affairs etc, but for quite a time they were really the E ticket around the district.
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  37

  The Watchtower Caste System & How We All Bought Into It

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were a jw, you know that everything hinged upon getting privileges, doing more, climbing the theocratic ladder.

  if we "made it" to ministerial servant, our goal was to reach out and be an elder.

  if we were part of a family that had an elder, m.s.

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  james_woods

  There were of course at least two other "secret" caste privileges which put you in special status...

  1. Were you a person or family who "had money"? This definately made you special...i.e.; did you have a travel trailer parking space where the CO or DO could park while he was there? Could you give these guys special dinner parties, fix their car, etc? Did you have a swimming pool so the circuit could do the baptisms at your house? If so, this was a good ticket toward Elder (or before that, to being a Congregation servant or whatever). If you were "really special" this way, you would buy in to one of the around the world assembly tours or at least help sponser one of the air travel pilgrimages to WTS-NY. The amazing thing was, most of the witnesses I knew in this special caste would barely be called upper middle class by normal society...and yes I freely admit it; my family shamefully pursued this avenue to witness stardom.

  2. Even more gross - are you an up-and-coming young man who really wants to be a CO or even get a District? Well, if you had the brass, what you could do was just start partaking of the emblems without any outward qualms at all! Yes, I actually knew a bethelite who did this and was allowed to GET MARRIED and THEN was given a circuit. When he was assigned to our circuit, you should have heard the buzz over getting a "young annointed"! I heard that later on, when his wife wanted to have a baby, he threw it all over and said that YHWH chose another path for him. (because she never claimed to be of the anointed). Funny, all the old hands I knew held the tradition that partaking unworthily was "drinking death to oneself".

  This kind of stuff smells like politics, not religion...but I do not know many religions that do not have a form of it.

  James
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  142

  What's the most ridiculous thing you were ever counselled on?

  by micheal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the cornerstones of jw's is counsel.

  they just love to give counsel and many times they will literally make things up just for the sake of counsel.

  i was once counselled for joking around too much.

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  james_woods

  My grandfather saw to it that I had one of the first Porsche 911 Targas in Oklahoma City. It was in 1969 and it was day-glo orange. Got straightened out by the CO for having a selfish car. Used the same excuse as for attending college - had to respect my nonwitness elders because the bible says so...still drive a 911.

  James
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  29

  who was Ed Dunlap

  by galaxy7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondered who was this person ed dunlap?

  ?

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  james_woods

  Very pleased to see some of you still remember Ed and Marion Dunlap. It was after considerable discussion with Ed and his brother that I became probably the first of the OKC OKLA congregation disfellowshippings -as I recall some time before Marion quit. Some may not know that Marion passed away this past summer; he was quite alert right up till the very last when he succumbed to a stroke. I always tried to call him once or twice a month but he also had a number of ex JW relatives who were very kind. Ed's wife is still living in OKC. The Franz book is absolutely right on about the hypocrisy at Bethel during the 1980 shizm - I have always believed that both Ray, Ed, and also Marion really believed that some reform could come about by their effort until they were all just slapped right in the face by the coverup efforts. It should be said that neither one ever showed me any evidence of bitterness or hatred; these people could really be called a fine example of what this so-called religion should have been encouraging their flock to be. Of course, both would chastise me for braggin on them...

  First day to find this site, but happy to find the name of an old friend!

  James
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  18

  Hello to all, and thanks for your kindness...

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  james here; exjw for about 25 years.

  was "in" from 1963 to 1980 due to parental "guidance" beyond my own good sense.. have been to elder school, bethel, wthq, etc..., knew many of franz heretics in the mid-late 70 trouble from oklahoma city.. have many silly stories to offer...but for now just will say this - .

  if your "god" was really going to come down here and kill everybody on earth except for the wt people who the society liked, would you not stand up to fly the first fighter jet against such a horrible alien?.

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  james_woods

  James here; exjw for about 25 years. Was "in" from 1963 to 1980 due to parental "guidance" beyond my own good sense.

  Have been to elder school, bethel, WTHQ, etc..., knew many of Franz heretics in the mid-late 70 trouble from Oklahoma City.

  Have many silly stories to offer...but for now just will say this -

  If your "GOD" was REALLY going to come down here and KILL EVERYBODY ON EARTH except for the WT people who the society liked, would you not stand up to fly the first fighter jet against such a horrible alien?

  Thats what I tell them when I get pushed on for falling "away"...seems somehow even better arg than the false prophecies, selfish control freaking, phony bible translation, UN club, stupid medicine, dont ask dont tell at bethel,

  etc..

  hey - its my rant and I like it FINE!!!

  James