i remember one year i was in my late teens and living away from home and needed a ride to the memorial.
i was invited to go with a couple from the hall and on the way they picked up a bible study they invited, this bible study ended up being a person i worked with who i knew was studying.
we did the memorial thing, and dropped off the study and went home.
I always curled my toes at the memorial to see all the new ones and wonder what they were thinking, I once invited a friend from school, who was very polite but the whole way through I couldn't help thinking how whacky this all sounded from an outsiders perspective, of course now I AM an outsider it does sound totally whacky!!
Poppy
my sister and her husband finally told a elder friend of theirs why they have been absent from the meetings for all these months.
) our family has chosen to only use the 607 issue when dealing with the elders.
because it seems to be the only issue they cannot answer!
I had this very discussion with my ex yesterday, and was so frustrated that he was brushing it off as if it was unimportant.
I said if the GB had acknowledged their mistake when it came to light (back in the 80s!) then I could have gone with that, instead they disfellowshipped anyone who would not accept their point of view. .
He just said over and over "the congregation must be kept clean"!!
I also pointed out that if 1914 was not correct, then the GB could not claim to be the ones prophesied about, which undermines the whole organisation.. again, blank, brainwashed replies
I've asked several people to look at this issue, every single one has come back with the Watchtower answer to it which supposedly proves it! Can they not see, it proves nothing when an organisation says they are right because they SAY SO.. ok!!
It's just like banging your head against a wall, no matter how glaring the evidence they wont see it unless they are ready.
Poppy
Isn't this one a conundrum? Because if God is NOT capable of learning then it means he knows everything, therefore he knew in advance what mankind was going to do, what Satan was going to do, that he would have to sacrifice his son etc. To me this doesn't make sense, and I really dont buy into the JW thing of 'he chose not to see' That's utter rubbish.
If he is capable of learning then surely that implies that he is not omnipotent, that he can and did make mistakes..
Either way, I'm definitely getting to the stage where if I believe in god at all.. I dont like him!
Poppy
i was talking to jh about this the other day.... this year will be the 3rd memorial i will have missed.
i've faded not disphellowshipped or disassociated.
to date i have not recieved an invitation to come along to the memorial for any of them.
I have noticed this also. I am fading, about 6 months out and people I considered to be close friends have treated me so badly. One recently had a big social gathering and did not invite me, I am relatively newly single and have two boys and this was an event with lots of children. She then texted me to say she was sorry and explained it was because I was not attending meetings.
I thought it quite telling, that nobody really gives a damn now if my children have 'association' or not. They have cut the whole family off because of my decision, which is fine actually because I dont want the children to have friends in the org anyway! But if they genuinely cared surely a big social gathering would be just the thing to get us re-started?
She then had the cheek to say she would always be my friend and could we do lunch.. Because she is a 'double life' kind of girl and enjoys coming out with me and knowing she can get away with what she wants. Not any longer! I did not bother to reply.
I have found true friendship without any kind of conditions out here in the big bad world!! I have a couple of people I know would love me regardless of what I did or believed and will be there for me to the death. True friendship is a rare and valued thing, and it's not to be found in the org.
Poppy
what is the book you liked the least studying at the bookstudy?
for me it was the isaiah books.
side question which book did you like the best?
Revelation book!!! and not once but 3 times.. arggggghh. Hated it, could never understand it and just thought it was misapplied drivel.
Also hated the Daniel book, and again, had to study it twice, although the second time spent a lot of time thinking about other things!
Best one.. that's a much harder question!
Poppy
i got my nose pierced and how have a tiny nose stud on the right side.
I had my nose pierced about 4 years ago while still an active JW, I got a lot of raised eyebrows, nobody actually said anything for ages until I put in a form for auxuillary pioneering (yeah I know, idiot) and an elder counselled me about it and said I was giving a wordly appearance etc. And I would not be allowed priveleges (ie pioneering) while I still had it.
Being humble and a good christian woman I thought about it and took it out, did my month of pioneering, really missed my nose stud and about 6 months later had it re-pierced! I had already decided I was never going to pioneer again!
I also had a lizard tattooed on my foot while still a witness (ahem yes I was slightly drunk) and I spent the whole summer trying to find shoes I could wear to the meeting to cover it up!
Enjoy your new piercing! I love mine, think it gives you that little bit of individuality that is SO frowned upon in the borg!
Poppy xxxx
our cong.
recently had its co visit, and i realized how fake people can be when the co is around.
elders take time off of work to go out on service during the week, ms's that want to be elders kiss butt to the co. taking the co and his wife out to lunch become a competition.
Things have definitely moved on from that in the UK, you still have the ass kissing, but I remember the poor brother chasing round the month before trying to find someone to have them for meals or to stay and getting more and more desperate! Inevitably it was the same people over and over.
Poppy
after reading experiences and correspondence that some have posted on this site i think it might be a good idea to share what has been somewhat effective in conversations with entrenched jw family and friends.
when i was just "waking up" my mind was so occupied with the things i learned that i paid little attention to how i presented my point of view to jw's.
i often employed the "shot-gun" approach using the research i unveiled along with a healthy dose of outrage.
I really enjoyed your comments, I think you are so right!! As soon as I raised a couple of points to my family everything shut down and now nobody mentions anything spiritual to me or asks why I am not going. Their self protection mechanism is incredibly finely tuned!
It's a very 'drip drip' approach I feel, and also we must recognise that unless they are ready to listen.. nothing will have much effect. It can be frustrating, I raised the 607 issue with a couple of people who could not answer my questions, both of them eventually fell back on the old reliable "we must trust in Jehovah to reveal it in his own time" One elder said "who knows we might get new light on this matter"!!
They are totally brainwashed and blinded, and most of us need to remember we were too!
I like your suggestion for an idea to make them question though.
Poppy
financial organisations and advisers.
financial organisations and advisers.
financial organisations and advisers.
Also I work in a field where we have to collect data, and we are legally now only entitled to hold it for 2 years without their permission, so every two years we must ask their permission to carry on using it.. Also the electoral roll which used to be available for anybody to view is now only available in certain places and people who wish not to have their details on it can request that.
The laws in the Uk have seriously tightened up, I think the WT is going to have to be careful too.
Poppy
i am looking for a creative or a usaul way to get my turn at being disfellowshipped.
i was a witness that married a 'worldly' guy.
so, basically i can do anything i want and not get disfellowshipped.
Send a letter to everyone in the congregation asking them to explain the 607 dillemma??
Apostacy will get you disfellowshipped before your head turns around!
Poppy
