Copernicus

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Posts by Copernicus

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  16

  Can we help You Know?

  by Copernicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so wheres you know?

  anybody want to venture a guess?.

  after ready farkels and tallys posts, hes probably hiding in a corner with a bucket.

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  Copernicus

  So where’s You Know? Anybody want to venture a guess?

  After ready Farkel’s and Tally’s posts, he’s probably hiding in a corner with a bucket. Puking into it, while thoughts of an elder body reviewing his many raves dance through his head. Hey, Who Knows, there may actually be some lame excuse you can concoct to save your ass – start thinking because you’re in deep. Maybe you could ask the board here for help. That’s an idea.

  Anyway, here’s a scripture for ya YK, it’s one of the few that still have any credibility in my mind: Proverbs 10:19 “In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression, but the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly.”

  Is there any application you’d like to make? How about one of your 15 paragraph rants pontificating on this little jewel for us? Make it quick, cause the end is coming soon. Your end that is.

  I hate to revel in someone else's pain, but you walked right into this one.
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  42

  Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday

  by LostMyReligion in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here are a few notes i took at the friday session of the 2001 "teachers of god's word" district convention.

  i thought i would share these upbuilding theocratic point with my new friends, along with my thoughts as i was listening to the program.

  1st instruction of the day: sing loudly and listen to the prayer!

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  Copernicus

  Hey LMR . . . Thanks for the post. I wouldn’t mind hearing more from your notes, because in this instance, your pain (of having to sit through it) is our gain.

  Man, I hated those things. For years I always had a job of some sort at DC’s that keep me occupied and able to tune out the background noise (ie: program). Then suddenly I wasn’t given an assignment and was forced to sit chained to my chair, painting on my “convention face” and pretending to be conscious while waves of inanities washed over me. . . aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh! Better you then me, buddy.

  You mentioned Ted Jaracz. Does he still sound like a barking dog when giving talks? Listening to him always generated a mental image of a snarling Doberman in my mind. What a turn off. During the last talk I heard by him I got up and walked out. If he’s an example of love, I don’t want any!

  So, how about something really interesting - where did you go for lunch?
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  Help me out here. . .

  by Copernicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a post i made on the "dear brother you know" thread, yk extracted this statement of mine:.

  "it [love] certainly wasn't something that many of us here experienced much of in the wt.

  he responded that: "that's not been my experience.

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  Copernicus

  From a post I made on the "Dear brother You Know" thread, YK extracted this statement of mine:

  "It [love] certainly wasn't something that many of us here experienced much of in the WT. . . "

  He responded that: "That's not been my experience. But, part of the problem may rest with you. In fact I am sure of it. If you didn't experience love among God's people it is because you were unloving yourself. Jesus revealed that that's the way Jehovah's universe works. The more you give the more you get. Try it. It works. / You Know"

  Yes, some how I knew it was entirely all my fault [8>] I think I read several articles to that effect while trying to work it out. I cannot say that I NEVER experienced love while in the WT, I did, and of a fine quality. But I also faced an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of personal abuse (mainly due to judgmental attitudes) by the "friends." Most witnesses that I know have of late reduced their association to but a small handful of close and fair minded associates to avoid the backstabbing, lying, and gossip so common and disruptive to the group as a whole. I guess that’s one way to deal with it.

  So what do you think? Is YK right? What’s been your experience is this area?
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  19

  Dear Brother "You Know"

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?

  much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.

  i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!

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  Copernicus

  After reading that post, I think I'm going to be sick. . .

  Really YK, how is it possible for you to vacillate the way you do between singing the party song (as above) and offing your own twist on things whenever it suits your mood (or your agenda, whatever it might be)? It's like watching a drunk drive down the road.

  "Our ministry expresses this love. We are willing to extend ourselves to assist anyone regardless of their station in life or race or whatever, to come to know God."

  To know God? Do you mean in that delusional sense of that WT sacred misnomer called "accurate knowledge"? Jesus commandment that you mentioned was to love one another. It [love] certainly wasn't something that many of us here experienced much of in the WT, nor is it in any sense the primary emotive aura that you project. Is it loving to lie to others?

  Knowing God? I think Jesus' message (if in fact he has anything to say today)on this subject to the GB and thier ilk would be "get away from me, I never knew you. . . . "
  
  Blah!
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  19

  Dear Brother "You Know"

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?

  much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.

  i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!

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  Copernicus

  AMNESIAN – you should know that YK’s expressed viewpoint is not unique among Witnesses at this time.

  Many of the old timers that I knew (20 years or more) were beginning to come to the same conclusions as YK and were openly saying so in the congregation (ie: that we had become the Israelites). I mean after all, when you can no longer deny that gibberish and lies are being presented to you as “spiritual food,” you have to find some way to justify it. These ones that I am speaking of had made such a huge buy-in to the WT, and invested so many years, that they were simply unwilling to consider the possibility that it was all a waste.

  I too independently considered the explanation that Bobby is offering you. On the surface, it seemed to make sense and placated me for a short while. But really, where it failed the litmus test for me was my inability to find a biblical example of where Jehovah had intentionally (or otherwise) mislead and lied to people, and then told them that their reaction after discovering this was a test of their faith, as we were taught to believe. If God does hate lies, why would he entrap his supposed followers in an organization rife with them, and hinge their salvation on a willingness to propagate same? I couldn’t live with that aspect of the argument, though as I said, I did try for a time.

  The only way I could have stayed and made it work would have been to view the GB as Jesus did the religious leaders of his day - “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform, etc, etc.” But as a public speaker, being forced (by peer and other pressures)to be a mouthpiece for these individuals, helping them to abuse and manipulate the flock (to sustain sales quotas of all things) was more than I could stomach.

  YK does make some interesting points. I’m looking forward to your response to his explanation AMNESIAN. And by the way, you’re right, he has essentially started his own religion - as his position would never for an instant be tolerated or entertained by the organization he claims to be a part of, however obliquely.
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  CO's giving new instructions?

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my step-son, a jw (18 years old) is here to visit for the summer.

  in a conversation yesterday he informed me that his co is now instructing congregations to "use the bible more" in their presentations when they're out on service.

  sean said, "he said this is because we don't want to be known as just selling, i mean placing, magazines.

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  Copernicus

  I think that Slip&Slide is absolutely right. During my last few years of recent active “service,” approaching anyone with an outright offer of a WT or Awake rag almost invariably produced no reaction other then immediate rejection or that “stare” of ridicule (anyone who’s experienced that knows what I mean, ha, ha). There was/is such hostility toward the WT stereotype held by the vast majority in this country (and deservedly so) that it was self-defeating to attempt to initiate any discussion based on the literature – it simply had no credibility. The bible on the other hand, could sometimes produce different results (until they found out you were a WTS salesman). It was sooooooo hopeless and depressing.

  The Internet I’m sure is largely responsible for this, as when I would occasionally find “interest” I would attempt to ascertain whether or not the individual had computer access. I found that if such was the case, on my return I typically faced a sneering sort of indifference that made me feel as if I had the word CULT stamped in red ink across my forehead. . . or else I had stepped in some dog leavings in the yard and tracked it up to the door. Obviously they had done some homework.

  And why not? How could someone read and come to any sort of positive, objective conclusion about the material presented by the WTS. I mean, have your read any of that stuff lately? I was embarrassed many times and would try to downplay the contents. Especially the “you’re going to be annihilated if you don’t listen to me now” type of themes. Geeze, give people a break why don’t ya!

  So it comes as no surprise to hear a CO offering this sort of direction. They’re desperate too for anything that will instill any possibility of success in the “ministry.” The WTS has no one to blame but themselves. When they have a captive audience of several million who have no alternative but to swallow any swill that they produce, I think they tended to lose sight of little things like editorial content and storyline continuity, ha, ha.

  If I was in Brooklyn the first thing I’d do would be to give that tired old writing committee the boot. Although they’d have to face a bit of “punishment” first for forcing me to sit through readings of such GEMS as the Daniel book!!!!

  What’s the second thing I’d do? Hmmmmm. . . liquidate assets maybe? Transfers to Swiss bank accounts?
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  10

  Another newbie

  by Copernicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, id like to thank the many posters on this board (and the old h2o) who made my exiting passage through the entrapping maze of wt ideology a relatively expeditious and much less painful possibility then it would have been otherwise.

  the value of the service you perform in helping to dispel the sense of paralyzing of isolationism felt by those who begin to realize the truth about the wts and its pompous, self-designated status a god sole representative on earth today, cant be overstated.

  ive been a lurker here for a least a year and i was finally prompted to write by the inevitable reappearance of the pedantic you know.

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  Copernicus

  Slip&Slide:

  Before I consider entertaining your offer of love bombs, I have two questions for you:

  Is "Doin' the humpty hump...just doin' the humpty hump" something that you practice at home alone, or do you play with your "friends"?

  And two - is the photo of the beautiful woman you've inserted in your picture slot indicative of some sort of sexual indentity crisis which you're currently undergoing?

  Doctors can help with that, you know.
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  4

  When it rains...

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here in the eastern seaboard of oz it's raining today.

  have you ever considered that these rainy days are days of special activity to the witnesses?.

  in an endeavor to give at least one complete witness to all the inhabitants of this town, the brothers decided to preach there only on very rainy days, in the hope that they would not be bothered by the young folk.

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  Copernicus

  G’day mate:

  Your mention of rain raised a few laughs by taking me back to a conversation I overheard at a circuit assembly I attended a few years ago.

  A few of us were sitting on the grass outside during the (thank god for small favors) lunch break, trying to fend off impending brain death caused by the several hours of banalities to which we’d just been exposed. Breaking our idyll was a sister near our group who was commenting loudly on the pitiful parking arrangements (several other events had been scheduled in the vicinity of the rented hall where the CA was being held – one of them being a charity marathon to benefit MS research, or some other disease). Anyhow, there had been a short downpour prior to our being cut down from the rack by the noon bell, and this woman was loudly expressing her belief that Jehovah “had brought the rain, to drive off all the marathoners and their audience, so that we could enjoy the extra parking spaces that were freed up” (her group responded with a wave of head bobbing affirmations).

  I sat there in slack jawed disbelief on hearing this middle age woman voice such nonsense. I mean really, I’ve no doubt that storms and other weather based events have at times destroyed KH’s and the private homes of Witnesses (not to mention likely causing a few deaths in the process) and this person sat there attributing a coincidental break in the weather to a willful act of god! Or maybe it was just the patron saint of parking attendants who had really acted on our behalf? One can never be sure about these mysterious happenings.

  Yes, millions the world over are suffering under the effects of depravation, starvation, war, etc – but WE know where god’s real interests lie - in making life more comfortable for his loyal servants.

  Of course, this was just one of MANY similar episodes I could relate. You know, I think it was when I actually stopped to listen to what the people around me were saying, as opposed to simply watching their lips move, that I began to seriously consider whether or not a brain wave detector would register any activity at a JW gathering.

  Thanks for the chuckles Ozzie.
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  10

  Another newbie

  by Copernicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, id like to thank the many posters on this board (and the old h2o) who made my exiting passage through the entrapping maze of wt ideology a relatively expeditious and much less painful possibility then it would have been otherwise.

  the value of the service you perform in helping to dispel the sense of paralyzing of isolationism felt by those who begin to realize the truth about the wts and its pompous, self-designated status a god sole representative on earth today, cant be overstated.

  ive been a lurker here for a least a year and i was finally prompted to write by the inevitable reappearance of the pedantic you know.

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  Copernicus

  Hey guys . . . thanks for the welcome. I feel like I’ve been “love bombed” ha, ha, ha.

  As was said: “I too lurked for a while before I felt able to post, it can be quite a big step for some.” Yes Anglise, it can be a big step. As I was writing my little rant, I could feel some of the old anger and resentment over being used and manipulated welling up again. And I thought I had gotten past all that; how long does that take? But it was good to say at least something in a public forum. There are many times now when I wished I would have been man enough to have stood up in the KH and proclaimed some of these thoughts before the crowd, rather then silently slinking away and leaving them to come to their own conclusions about my departure. Especially when I sat there hearing lies from the platform. Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

  Oh well. It’s good to get it out
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  10

  Another newbie

  by Copernicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, id like to thank the many posters on this board (and the old h2o) who made my exiting passage through the entrapping maze of wt ideology a relatively expeditious and much less painful possibility then it would have been otherwise.

  the value of the service you perform in helping to dispel the sense of paralyzing of isolationism felt by those who begin to realize the truth about the wts and its pompous, self-designated status a god sole representative on earth today, cant be overstated.

  ive been a lurker here for a least a year and i was finally prompted to write by the inevitable reappearance of the pedantic you know.

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  Copernicus

  Hello to all:

  First, I’d like to THANK the many posters on this board (and the old H2O) who made my exiting passage through the entrapping maze of WT ideology a relatively expeditious and much less painful possibility then it would have been otherwise. The value of the service you perform in helping to dispel the sense of paralyzing of isolationism felt by those who begin to realize “the truth” about the WTS and its pompous, self-designated status a God’ sole representative on earth today, can’t be overstated.

  I’ve been a lurker here for a least a year – and I was finally prompted to write by the inevitable reappearance of the pedantic You Know. While I often enjoyed his posts on H2O (for their passionate intellectual appeal), I personally notice in his current writings a more strained tone, and a vain air of bravado that belies the gradual loss of confidence experienced by anyone of sincerity who tries to defend the indefensible. Having traveled the same roads myself, I might speculate that the old faith buttressing mantras are starting to ring hollow, aren’t they? (If I’m wrong in my assessment, You Know, please appreciate that this is MY vicarious interpretation of something that you yourself may not have yet realized).

  In his emotionally honest and thoughtfully expressed closing post on H2O, YK, speaking as an “anointed” representative of the “God who cannot lie” said – “This is it for me. I will not be participating in any other forum.” And yet he is back. Why? Likely, as one astute poster noted in his response to YK’s departure: that the intellectually sterile atmosphere at the KH would force his return. How’s that for fulfilled prophecy? ha, ha.

  As I read his recent posts I am taken back both to my own tortured attempts to find ANYTHING in the human drama surrounding us that would lend credence and support to the WT belief system, and my conscious filtering of any information that contradicted the same. After all, if in fact we are living in the time of the end, then there must be SOMETHING tangible going on to suggest that the current sum of life’s experiences reflect something unique, something more than the random tides of human endeavor. Right? Such is the consequence of having failed to diversify one’s intangible investments. When you have all yours eggs in the WT basket, it’s hard to see the forest for the trees. Of course in actuality, you don’t want to see it. It might mean admitting some rather uncomfortable things, and God forbid, doing something about it. Like a committed broker defending an unwise investment in a seemingly attractive, yet failing stock, there is the refuge of denial – that tomorrow, next week, next year – it will turn around and vindication will present itself. Yes, it’s hard to let go, isn’t it?

  In what should be inscribed on the doors in Brooklyn as an epitaph, the psalmist said: “Our signs we have not seen; there is no prophet anymore, and there is no one with us knowing how long.”

  I guess ours is not the first generation to experience the disappointment and failure that comes from expecting that things might be otherwise, huh? By the way YK, if you’re reading this, I came to this conclusion about Ps 74:9 about the same time you did, along with several others you’ve mentioned. Nothing personal.

  More later. . .