Posts by Copernicus

13

OPERATION of & Sin Against the Holy Spirit!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when jws ask one of the anointed just how they "know" that they are anointed, they are really asking what it is that god does via the holy spirit that tells them they are chosen.

a "bolt" of lightening?

a rush of the wind?

Copernicus

Tina:

I burst out laughing when I read your post. And yes, I’ve had the same thought myself, once or twice.

But I did very much enjoy the responses to this thread.

Orangeblossom said:

“I lived most of my life filled with guilt, not for having some secret sin, but because I was not living up to the standards of the WTS. I use to look around at others in the hall and wonder how they could do it but not me. Anyway, once I read "Crisis of Conscience", the guilt left. But, I have to be honest, a void entered my life as well.”

My experience exactly after reading C of C! And it was the “void” you mentioned that I was referring to in my original post. I even thought of describing it that way myself.

Quester said:

“It is hard to put into words. Yes some people describe God's presence as love, peace--yet it
is not the normal love, peace feelings. Words are really inadequate to describe it.”

Yes, it IS hard to put into words, but I see you knew exactly what I was talking about. Could shared experiences like this prove that more is going on that an over active imagination?

Proplog2 said:

“The really scary thing is that JW's are governed by men who believe the feeling they experience really is some special anointing. If there really is a God, would he allow the only evidence of his special choice to be something so abstract and similar to psychosis?”

Yes, it IS scary isn’t it? Especially since that “feeling” that guides them so often takes them in the WRONG direction – to the detriment of many.

But what I wanted to say to Tina was that many of us need something more in our lives then is available from conventional means. That’s what drives these religious quests. My favorite book in the bible has always been Ecclesiastes – as it’s one of the few that I find real human feelings in, feelings that we all can identify with and that transcends time and circumstance. Like Solomon, we’ve all wrestled with the question of a purpose in life. What conclusion are we to come to that is adequately satisfying? Maybe there isn’t one. But what was described by some of the posters here was the sense of something larger then ourselves, something outside of our immediate existence, that served, if only for a brief period, to quell that inner turmoil that questions the futility of it all.

I enjoyed everyone’s thoughts very much.

Copernicus

13

OPERATION of & Sin Against the Holy Spirit!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when jws ask one of the anointed just how they "know" that they are anointed, they are really asking what it is that god does via the holy spirit that tells them they are chosen.

a "bolt" of lightening?

a rush of the wind?

Copernicus

It's late and I just got back home and read these posts.

It gave me something to think about. . . thanks very much for the sincerity. What a subject, hey? And thanks for identifying. It meant a lot.

More to come. . .tomorrow.

Feeling lighter,
Copernicus

13

OPERATION of & Sin Against the Holy Spirit!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when jws ask one of the anointed just how they "know" that they are anointed, they are really asking what it is that god does via the holy spirit that tells them they are chosen.

a "bolt" of lightening?

a rush of the wind?

Copernicus

Amazing, I’d like to ask your opinion on something close to the subject of your thread. I am serious about this although it will probably sound strange. My wife and I have had numerous discussions about this without reaching any really acceptable explanation.

We both acknowledge having felt “something” while attending meetings, studies, service, etc. I was so conditioned to believe that it was holy spirit, that I never questioned it as being otherwise at the time. In particular, while on shepherding calls, giving prayer or talks, I would have a real sense of what I thought was God’s presence, and impelling force. It was more then just my imagination, it was to definitive for that to have been the case (or so I think). And in all honesty, I’ve not felt it since leaving the org.

So what was it? Has anyone else had this experience? I never thought of myself as being anointed – I’ve wondered if it was just some sort of endorphin mental trigger brought on by the stress of being a JW. But it seemed to be a sense of closeness to God. Or was it? It has bothered me for some time now. It’s the only thing that leaves me with even a shred of belief in God’s existence, despite the massive disillusionment I suffered as a result of my association with the WT.

Thoughts?

18

Much fuss about nothing?

by Norm in

jw
friends

hey all,.

having been around the internet for about 7 years now and spent many years on h2o i have observed the activity of fred hall and you know both there and here.

people are of course free to do whatever they want, but personally i don't understand why anybody will bother with these two "village idiots".. why not ignore them completely.

Copernicus

You’re absolutely right Norm. I know I regret that I’ve allowed myself to be drawn into pointless circular arguments with YK. The guy is just a human red flag.

Anyhow. . . isn’t it time for some more of your letters to the GB? The ones I read were brilliant pieces of sarcasm, and I could use some laughs right now. So how about it?

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

Copernicus

Now for YK. . .

YK: You asked if I ever heard of the arch of Titus?

Yes, ad nauseam, actually.

Hmmmmm. . . have you ever heard of revisionist histroy? Something written after the fact? The existence of the arch confirms nothing except the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. To connect it to words that could easily have been written as apologia by an understandably devastated member of that Jewish nation, desperate to justify the destruction of that “holy city,” is a bit of a reach in my mind. It’s one you are free to make however.

It is also interesting to me that only one bible writer saw fit to record a prophecy of such enormous impact, and that Paul did not see fit to reference it directly in his letter to the Hebrews at a time when it was so near to being fulfilled. His words being undeniably written prior to the Roman invasion.

On this subject: I’ve recently been reading a book that describes various documents from the early church. Believe me, they left the REALLY weird stuff out when they established the cannon. However, many of these bizarre documents stood as “inspired” missives up to that point. What does their physical existence prove? Ala your arch argument?

You said: “That's stupid. I don't claim to be a prophet.” But you are a self-appointed foreteller of events, are you not? That you bury your prognostications in the shifting sands of bible prophecy hardly alters that fact. Your basic argument, that the words of Jesus are inescapably fixed in future events, is hardly bolstered by your many interpretive failures. Perhaps that’s why you ignored (as is your wont) my references to performance – your own is so dismal.

You said: “Obviously you can't refute the fact that Jesus foretold the apostasy that you have become emeshed in.”

I don’t view it as a fact. Therefore, there is nothing to refute.

So I’ll repeat yet AGAIN: As Jesus (the true prophet said): “The scribes and the Pharisees (or any others who falsely claim divine authority) have seated themselves in the seat of Moses . . . for they say but do not perform.”

So even with him, performance was an issue.

I realized that in endlessly going door to door (just as YK endlessly rants) with this “sky is falling” message – and then having people see that the sky never falls – only served to dishonor God, and made the scriptures a laughing stock. What kind of faith does this “boy who cried wolf” fairy tale create? What kind of confidence does this failed message inspire? None - except to frighten people into jettisoning their lives in favor of serving and enriching a human corporation.

Performance was an issue with me as well.

Refute that.

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

Copernicus

Farkel:

I'd NEVER consider you a coward or a wimp, under any circumstances. Please don't think that, I've read to many of your posts to ever describe you that way.

I understand the delimma in which you find yourself - I simply wanted to force the issue and see us all move on.

I hope there are no hard feelings. E-mail me privately if you feel we need to resolve anything.

Copernicus

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

Copernicus

Farkel – as Seeker said, “you have your answer.”

Now what?

42

Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday

by LostMyReligion in

jw
friends

here are a few notes i took at the friday session of the 2001 "teachers of god's word" district convention.

i thought i would share these upbuilding theocratic point with my new friends, along with my thoughts as i was listening to the program.

1st instruction of the day: sing loudly and listen to the prayer!

Copernicus

Lovingkindness,

You said:

“They deserve to know "the facts". ( and to learn that Ray Franz has been lied about and mistreated for many years and the lies are still going on today. And the lies that all those who leave the WTS leave God, Jesus, and the Bible. etc. ) Well, I feel that it is well worth the effort even if only a few listen. (after all, only 8 survived the flood) smile”

Please don’t misunderstand the meaning of my earlier post. I was just relaying my own feelings of frustration over having argued (with other JW’s) some of the more blatant doctrinal wrongs taught by the organization, only to have them disengage mentally and start spewing platitudes. Often at times like these, I would see fear in the eyes of the person to whom I was speaking. As a rule, the brothers didn’t like anyone rocking their boat.

Often, while teaching from the platform some hopelessly convoluted or self-contradictory material, I would step down and be congratulated by many for having given such a fine talk. It broke my heart to think that I had just lied to these people, and they didn’t have a clue. So much of the society’s questionable message is hidden behind the credibility that the congregation vests in the speaker – it really bothered me.

So. . . yes, it’s worth it if only a few will listen. They do deserve to hear the facts, even if most refuse to consider them. And I commend anyone who has the courage to take a stand. Jesus said “everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” I could never reconcile that statement with much of the material I was directed to dispense. It still bothers me today. That’s what was coming through in my post.

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

Copernicus

I know exactly what YK has said over the years. I read his posts too. And I know the import of their content, as does almost anyone with an IQ over 50 who's been an observer here for any time.

"I tossed the ball back into his court to ferret him out and see if he was bluffing, or not."

Who cares if he's bluffing or not? What's your point (other than to prove what a nice guy your are?)[8>] He's called your hand.

Put up or shut up.

46

What Caused Your First Doubt ?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

for me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.

it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.

and the society never did.

Copernicus

"If Christendom missed the "day of her visitation", so did jw's."

Very good point. How did your PO try and weasel out of it? Or did he?