Posts by Copernicus

20

A Chinese Meal with Fred Franz

by VM44 in

jw
friends

near the beginning of the book, "the orwellian world of jehovah's.

witnesses," one of the authors gives a personal experience where.

he and others were treated by fred franz to a meal at a chinese.

Copernicus

Speaking of Franz, Maximus said:

When he traveled--and one year he went around the world--folks would slip him cash either in his palm or in envelopes, but nothing on the grand scale that takes place today.

I can’t speak for what goes on at Bethel, but I know that within my own circuit (in an affluent city), the CO’s do very well. Based on what I personally gave them every visit in the form of cash or other gifts, and assuming that at least 10 others (a low estimate) in the congregation did the same, they’d easily be good to go to the tune of between 500 –1000 dollars a week. Not bad hey? I used to think about this whenever I’d read a resolution to the publishers asking them to approve funds to pay ALL the expenses a CO might incur during his visit.

So let’s see the equivalent in income earned by a poor servant of God such as a CO:

1) a nice furnished apartment paid for by the local circuit = $750 mo
2) new vehicle leased by the Society = $400 mo
3) food and other items paid by the locals = $400 mo
4) Insurance paid by the Society = $300 mo
5) Clothes and other personal items donated $200 mo
6) Direct cash contributions = $3-4000 mo

Net haul: Around 6,000 per month, tax-free in my area.

Did I miss anything?

Our circuit was a real plum, famous for taking in CO’s on their final tour who were about to retire. They’d get a chance to fatten up the old retirement account over the two years they spent with us. How much, did you ask? Around $100,000 in cash total.

Another minor point. . . early on as a publisher, I noticed that the CO’s seemed to favor certain brothers with special notice. Calling on them for prayers, meeting assignments during the visit, involvement in field service, etc. Later on I found that my being bestowed with such lavish attention by a CO was in direct proportion to my personal contributions to him. What a surprise, huh?

I had to prove this to my wife on several occasions, since she refused to believe it at first. Yes my friends, all sorts of special consideration can be bought in God’s organization. So let’s not be cheapskates!

I’d like to go on expanding on the many other examples I’m aware of, but I was just overtaken by nausea.

65

The dim people

by Norm in

jw
friends

the dim people.

the new world society.

the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

Copernicus

Dedalus:

Noam Chomsky is brilliant; when I was an undergraduate he saved me from B. F. Skinner and a psychology department gone mad with behaviorist theory. Politics, linguistics, psychology, sociology ... is there anything about which Chomsky isn't brilliant?

B. F. Skinner. . . uuuugggghhhh!!! I’m sure you’re familiar with the accounts of what he did to his daughter? That he ever held any serious sway in academic circles should be of concern to compassionate people everywhere.

And yes, Chomsky IS brilliant. I agree completely with your assessment of him as such. His book, “Manufacturing Consent” is a must read, for ones who want to see the bigger picture. I first caught him by accident while he was giving a speech aired on a public access channel. Had me glued to the tube for 60 minutes. A fascinating thinker, who should be one of the more famous linguists known today. The fact that he isn’t speaks volumes, yes?

55

GB Split Over Bible vs. Policy

by Maximus in

jw
friends

please read the following brief paragraph carefully: .

"once again, the ruling ecclesiastical class suppressed efforts to make gods word available to their flock.

they violently silenced a voice that pointed to some of the errors of their non-biblical beliefs.

Copernicus

I told them that I didn’t inhale. Got me off the hook, ha, ha.

Really though Voltaire, I appreciated your take on the goofy reasoning evident in that article.

65

The dim people

by Norm in

jw
friends

the dim people.

the new world society.

the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

Copernicus

This post seems to be a creative outing, a departure of style -- and among other things, it is satirical, and therefore uses the tropes and conventions of satire. You don't seem to get that, though.

Hmmmm. . . I guess I didn’t get it either. So that makes at least two of us. In my opinion this “dim” post is not one of Norm’s more particularly shining moments (although he has had MANY). The world is, unfortunately, filled with “dim” people. Conversely, many (in and outside of the WTS) exist to exploit that fact.

Noam Chomsky (one of my favorite political writers) wrote a phenomenal essay entitled (I think) “Leading the Bewildered Herd” that substantiates the above facts, and explores the wide spread use of propaganda to manipulate people in our society today. Well worth a read.

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Friday:

In all due deference to my “queer” friends, I must say that you do have a point here, LOL.

Be kind now!

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

Copernicus

Dear Dan:

I understand your sentiments completely and I appreciated your honesty.

Actually, I was hoping that apart from this board, we might be able to talk about something besides religion. You do seem like an interesting fellow and someone whom I’d enjoy getting to know better. I do wish I had known more like you while I was in the org. The lack of any real intellectual outlet among the friends was very discouraging. I have never been one to be content with superficial forms of worship. Certainly, the “deep” things of God should warrant a through cognitive investigation, yes?

Thanks for your assessment of me as an ethical individual; I hope I would qualify as such. It wouldn’t have been my intention to influence you in any way, although such attempts might have become inevitable, or even unconscious on my part.

. . . I have decisions to make in the next few months.

Yes, I would imagine this to be the case. I am confident you have all the tools and information necessary to make the right ones, eg: whatever works for you personally. I am a staunch advocate of informed choice and the personal freedom to exercise it.

I am not DA’d of DF’d, but inactive. I believed that I was drawn to the org by Jehovah’s spirit. My experiences as part of the machine did thereafter crush and violate that transcendent initial motivation. I am still sorting it all out, and believe I will be for many years to come.

I wish you the best, and greatly enjoyed your contribution to our flowering sense of Zeitgeist.

My offer will always remain open,

Copernicus

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Carlo is a troll, and I'm sure he's getting a real charge out of some of your posts that take him seriously. Here's a link to his "correspondence" page:

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/proclaimer/607.html

Scroll down to the question entitled "A dutch sister has asked us?"

It will have you ROTFL! I've actually quoted parts of it myself in letters to those I know still in the borg. Though meant as satire, the reasoning is inescapably valid. I think this guy just loves getting mail from JW's who take him seriously

And. . . his page must be popular. It shows up early on in every web search I do for Jehovah's Witnesses.

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Yeah. . . yeah, Carlos is a CO, and I sit on the Governing Body.

It’s called satire, people! He’s stroking you!

While I can see where some might have some problems with his approach, there are some comedic gems on his page. The guy does have a strange sense of humor.

55

GB Split Over Bible vs. Policy

by Maximus in

jw
friends

please read the following brief paragraph carefully: .

"once again, the ruling ecclesiastical class suppressed efforts to make gods word available to their flock.

they violently silenced a voice that pointed to some of the errors of their non-biblical beliefs.

Copernicus

Farkel asked:

So, how many possible reasons could there be for this kind of stuff to "slip" into the rags?

1) The liberal faction in Writing wants to subtly convey WT hypocrisy to those R&F who can think.

Why go through all of this trouble to try and reach 2% of your reading audience? I mean really, the percentage of JW who can think (ie: catch and apply the subtleties being conveyed) is near zip. In my experience, we’re talking one or two pubs per congregation, tops.

2) Too many Bethelites are interested in getting this "issue" out and probably like most dubs, they never read the crap that is in it, anyway. It just "slips" by, in that case. Aware dubs will get the message. Braindead dubs will remain braindead and call it "spiritually deep" or "refreshing" without having a clue about what it really says.

Aware dubs will get the message and then what? Become even more frustrated? There is no direction implied or contained in the “message.” So what would be the point?

3) The WT writers are fully aware of their own hypocrisy, but are so used to getting away with it for a dozen decades that they shamelessly try it again.

Now here’s a possibility! They’ve just got a warped sense of humor, and they want to push the envelope of idiocy to see just how much the flock will swallow? This sounds barely plausible, in a sick sort of way.

Are there other possibilities I haven't considered? I'm sure their are. Let's hear them!

Fark, maybe it’s just this simple: occasionally a few honest folks (in a position to do something about it) get a twinge of conscience and they express some real feelings.

Or, certain members of the writing committee get so BORED doing cut and paste re-writes that they break the mind numbing monotony by slipping in something original once in a while.

In any case, if the articles weren’t all anonymous, at least there’d be some accountability to the readers. I’ve always hatred the way they hide behind the absence of a by line. I think if they signed off on the stuff, we’d all begin to see a certain pattern emerge. Get my point?

55

GB Split Over Bible vs. Policy

by Maximus in

jw
friends

please read the following brief paragraph carefully: .

"once again, the ruling ecclesiastical class suppressed efforts to make gods word available to their flock.

they violently silenced a voice that pointed to some of the errors of their non-biblical beliefs.

Copernicus

the political environment at WBTS is as pure a struggle of good vs. evil as the world has ever seen.

From what I’ve been hearing of late, you may be more right then you know, Lisa.

A point I wanted to make about the magazines: In my last few years as an active dub, I started to notice the wild, pendulum like swings in the editorial content of the mags. There were so many contradictions from one article to the next, and I often saw opposing statements within a few paragraphs of each other in the same article. My wife and I had began to wonder if the authors of the various multipart study articles even bothered to consult with each other on their material. No continuity whatsoever. Bizarre.

Now it seems as if the struggle going on behind the scenes is what accounts for it. They aren’t talking to the proles through these articles, as much as the different factions are talking to each other! It certainly would explain the nature of the argumentation used over the past few years.

What do you think?

Jerome said:

They're hoping that a miraculous appearance of blood substitutes will bale them out in a few years.

I think you’re absolutely right. Everything we see now is just stalling and posturing, while they hope they can avoid having to publicly abandon the long standing blood policy (and all that entails) before the blood substitutes appear. The availability of these will make the whole issue a moot point, and will be a big win-win for the Tower; as the problem will just go away. It’s a lawyer’s dream. The fast track approval of Hemo-pure proves they’re just chomping at the bit to get these items on the approved list.

You’re (the WTS) telling me I can’t store my own blood for personal use, but the collection, processing, and storing of cow’s blood is OK? I think that the collective tin foil hat must have slipped a bit in Brooklyn when they floated this one.

Great post Jerome. I always enjoy your thoughts.