Posts by Inquisitor

35

A JW kid that I knew is now in the insane assylum

by headmath in

i just can't believe all the trouble witness kida are having lately in my area( (vancouver b.c).

3 years ago a witness kid (18 years old) jumped off a bridge to his death.. the latest news from the jw grapevine is that a jw kid that i knew (he is now 20) is in the insane assylum.

it seems he was found swimming towards bethel from vancouver (he left a note) this was at least a 1000 miles away and he never would have made it.

Inquisitor

Again I must put my foot down and emphasise that there is a distinction between depression, suicidal tendencies etc and actually runnning (or in the case of that young man, swimming) in public declaring oneself to be a Deity. While I admit that certain practices and beliefs of JWs are NOT good for a person's emotional well-being and his/her interaction with society as a whole, using the story of an institutionalised young man to accuse the JW religion of causing insanity is terribly biased and far-fetched.

I'm saying that this JW kid's experience is unique. You don't hear cases like this every day and you can't exactly sweep this sorta psychosis under the carpet! You cannot put this in the same category as depression. In recent memory no other JW has been trying to swim to Bethel, screaming that they are Jehovah now, am I correct?

This young JW's experience, tragic as it is, cannot be solely used to prove that the JW religion causes insanity.

At best you can only prove with anecdotal evidence that the religion causes depression and even suicidal tendencies.

We must be careful that bitterness doesn't cloud our sense of reason.

INQ

17

"Emission", "Issue" or "Genital organ"? - Ezekiel 23:20

by Inquisitor in

here's how ezekiel 23:20 reads in various translations: .

and she kept lusting in the style of concubines belonging to those whose fleshly member is as the fleshly member of male asses and whose genital organ is as the genital organ of male horses.

" - new world translation by wts .

Inquisitor

"made pregnant with semen"

stillajwexelder,

where did you get that verse from?

INQ

35

A JW kid that I knew is now in the insane assylum

by headmath in

i just can't believe all the trouble witness kida are having lately in my area( (vancouver b.c).

3 years ago a witness kid (18 years old) jumped off a bridge to his death.. the latest news from the jw grapevine is that a jw kid that i knew (he is now 20) is in the insane assylum.

it seems he was found swimming towards bethel from vancouver (he left a note) this was at least a 1000 miles away and he never would have made it.

Inquisitor

the dysfunction of the JW cult caused him to go mad. The kid seemed to be normal until recently

I'm convinced they bring that crazyiness on. No one else has ever owned my mental stabilty except them.

Look guys, it's one thing to claim that a high-control religious group left you severely depressed and anti-social. But claiming that the religion CAUSES INSANITY to the degree that one needs to be institutionalised, is ludicrous! If the company of JWs was that deleterious, why haven't most members been put in a mental institution yet? Have you even contemplated that genetic factors may have predisposed this individual to mental illness?

INQ

7

Examples of bad advice in the Bible . . . . . .

by nicolaou in

the good book?

my arse it is!.

i'll kick us off.. (1 corinthians 7:8-9) 8. .

Inquisitor

This scripture is not advice in itself, but it has been incorporated into advice against pursuit of an informed opinion, against critical thinking, against a proper secular education (higher education for JWs, education in evolution theory for evangelical Christians), producing stagnation of thought.

1 Corinthians 1:19-21, 26-28:

19 For it is written: "I will make the wisdom of the wise [men] perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual [men] I will shove aside." 20 Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing....

26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are...

INQ

7

Examples of bad advice in the Bible . . . . . .

by nicolaou in

the good book?

my arse it is!.

i'll kick us off.. (1 corinthians 7:8-9) 8. .

Inquisitor

katiekitten
The scriptures that comes to mind are:

Exodus 22:16 - "Now in case a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and he actually lies down with her, he is to obtain her without fail as his wife for the purchase price."

Deuter 22:28 - "In case a man finds a girl, a virgin who has not been engaged, and he actually seizes her and lies down with her, and they have been found out, 29 the man who lay down with her must also give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels, and she will become his wife due to the fact that he humiliated her. He will not be allowed to divorce her all his days."

*scriptures quoted from New World Translation. Feel free to compare with other translations.
INQ

17

"Emission", "Issue" or "Genital organ"? - Ezekiel 23:20

by Inquisitor in

here's how ezekiel 23:20 reads in various translations: .

and she kept lusting in the style of concubines belonging to those whose fleshly member is as the fleshly member of male asses and whose genital organ is as the genital organ of male horses.

" - new world translation by wts .

Inquisitor

Here's how Ezekiel 23:20 reads in various translations:

"20 And she kept lusting in the style of concubines belonging to those whose fleshly member is as the fleshly member of male asses and whose genital organ is as the genital organ of male horses." - New World Translation by WTS

"20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses" - NIV

"20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." - King James Version

As far as I can tell, "emission" and "issue" were frequently used by other translations, whereas "genital organ" is uniquely in NWT.

Given that the translation of this word does not seem to contribute to any major doctrinal dispute, does anyone know why the difference is so great between the NWT and the other translations? This assumes that "issue" is not euphemism for "appendage" or "genital member".

INQ

p.s. Credit goes to frozen one for citing "biblical porn" in nicolau's thread.

31

DID THE ANIMALS WILLINGLY GO INTO THE ARK WITH NOAH?

by minimus in

jw
friends

in the spirit of badboy's threads, i too must ask this question.

Inquisitor

I think some of the animals were too traumatized by the sight of a drunk and naked Noah to make it anywhere near him let alone into the ark. (you didn't really buy the sanitized version of how Noah merely developed the drinking habit in his later years did you?)

gaiagirl,

Thank you for finally exposing the truth about the demise of unicorns, gryphons, dragons and the like. I guess those magical beasts should have seen it coming: trying to get into an ark that strictly forbids the dabbling in magic of any sort.

INQ

66

Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo in

jw
friends

i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

Inquisitor

"I quite accept that a number of so-called "religious experiences" are due to aroused emotional states, and some denominations major on trying to trigger these. I don't think it's fair to tar everything with the same brush, though, nor do you have evidence to that effect."

Dear LT

What you say is true. It was not my intention to insult every religious person on JWD. I was merely responding to a mockery of agnostics. If one is prepared to challenge people's lack of religious belief, one should be equally prepared to be put in the hot seat for one's religious passion.

INQ

66

Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo in

jw
friends

i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

Inquisitor

LT,

I'm not going to make lengthy philosophical arguments with you. But to address your immediate question, I think that you would concede that a religious emotional high is instigated by a very strong desire to believe,despite reasonable doubt. Not everything in life is dominated by this same self-induced emotion. (1) I do not attempt to do a handstand despite being reasonably fit because I fear not doing it properly might result in my hurting myself. (2) A young lady from the country is unaware of her inherent beauty despite having so many guys in the city trying to impress her because she'd always thought city folks were better than people like her. So I don't see how you would call every experience in life self-induced to a similar magnitude of a religious high.

INQ

66

Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo in

jw
friends

i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

Inquisitor

Perry,

Suppose for a moment that you were God and you knew that the moment you created freedom and not pre-programming in highly intelligent creatures that great evil would eventually be acted upon. Would you still do it?.. We are all confronted with two possible views of reality as we have both touched on. Either we live in an evil universe where a Loving God is an oddity; or we live in a loving universe where the acting on the possibility of evil is at odds with the basis of things.

We're supposing here that instead of the presence of Evil negating the possibility that God exists, we're going to ASSUME that Evil has to exist for the greater Good, and thus we allow that God exists. That alone is not going to convince me that God exists. What about scripture? What about theology? If He truly exists, what is His method of communication? I'm not going to confess that He exists because of an idle assumption. Nothing suggests that the former premise is wrong (i.e. that the inexplicable presence of Evil negates God's existence). The only reason we're going with your assumption is that you feel that the former premise is a very pessimistic worldview (in your opinion).

You've no doubt read many testimonies of peoples' relationship with God, some very dramatic. There are millions of them, not just the ones on this thread. Because the basis of these peoples' universe is Love, they've placed themselves in a position through belief and trust (requirements for functioning relationships) to reciprocate that loving dynamic.

I've also known people who's lives were deprived of divine intervention. I would recommend that you interview the gassed Jews or the drowned tsunami victims, but I suspect that it's a little too late. Also, how would you know that these testimonies aren't simply a placebo effect? How do you know that people aren't merely hiding what forsharry was bold enough to admit:
I don't reject God persay...I simply pretend to believe in him in the same way he pretended to help me when I was in need.

First you suggest we go on the assumption that Evil is a necessary pre-requisite for God and Good to exist. Now we need stake our belief in the Higher Being on an emotional high? An emotional disposition that may or may not be a self-induced experience?

God has given answers to some of your questions but you don't like them because they are at odds with your view of the universe.

What answers? Those you raised? Such as...

I think volcanoes and tsunamis are on the "to do" list, right after God's family is fully revealed and evil and freedom are reconciled.

It is not a stretch for me to imagine that he would simply back off after the Fall, having done so natural forces simply follow the laws of physics sometimes tragically.

Answers that begin with "I think" or "I imagine" aren't very omniscient of the all-powerful God. Unless, I've made the mistake of quoting your views for God's. In which case, I've yet to hear of these purported Godly answers you speak of.

Your view has evil as the basis of things and a Loving God as an oddity. How's that view working out for you?

My view acknowledges that Evil exists alongside with the Good. God is merely non-existant, uninterested or hopelessly inefficent. So tipping the balance between Good and Evil depends on our efforts. This is my current view of things. Perhaps this may change with time. I may become a more "devout" atheist, or I may choose to adopt some religious habits and hope God will be my best friend. I don't recall saying that my worldview is based on evil alone. That was you putting words in my head. I'm surprised that you have to ask "how a worldview" is working out for me. Should our worldview be based upon our whim and fancy? And not upon facts? A worldview becomes our worldview because it is how we make sense of what we know. To defy it and create one that caters to our emotional needs is not a worldview. That is called self-delusion.

Why don't you just believe God and he'll explain it all to you personally and you won't have to rely on peoples' testimonies to find out if he exists or not?

Don't you worry. I'm not listening to testimonies to know where I stand. So you wager that I'll get my answers if I believe in God FIRST? That's funny, you believe in God. How come He hasn't passed it on to you so you can explain it to us satisfactorily? If He hasn't done it for you, what makes you think He'll answer my questions once I get sucked in (again)? INQ