i was just skimming through the awake magazines we got on last sunday.
the cover story is about morals.
the thing that immediately caught my eye was the explicite standpoint that the morals of this world went into decay in 1914. .
Great post, Borgia.
The Society takes advantage of people with a shallow awareness of the world around them, whether it be knowledge of the past or the present. This is one of the countless reasons I will never give this religion a second chance. JWs possess an insular, artificial worldview from which their hope and religiosity are nourished. When rationally challenged, they betray their own claims that their faith is fact-based and not ruled by emotions.
INQ
hi all, especially the scholars amongst you ;)a .
i was listening to richard dawkin's talk at lynchburg va and he was tlaking about how horrible the god of the old testament was- and he mentioned this: .
that when jeptha's daughter came out (and jeptha had promised god he'd sacrifice the first thing out of his house) that he had to sacrifice her as a burnt offering.
Read comments by willyloman and Faraon in Blondie's 2003 "Comments You Won't Hear At the WT study"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/63331/1.ashx
INQ
it's around 11am and there's a knock on the door.
one of the kids goes to the door and the person there asks for my wife.
she's still in her pj's so i go in her place to find two older ladies.
Hey kwin,
That was a pretty smooth exchange. I enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing. Oh and by the way, did you know that JWs have a more recent publication that attempts to tackle the "menace" of Evolution? I think it is called the Creator book. "Is there a Creator Who Cares About You?" I think.
I don't know if Alan F or anyone else has reviewed this later book. Anybody have any ideas about this?
INQ
most persons that i knew used either sickness or work as an excuse.......what about you??
?
I once prepared the material for a meeting. Ran my comments-opinions (criticising the Society's interpretation of the scripture) with my folks to prove that I have prepared for that meeting, only to tell them later, "Yup, there's nothing more I could possibly learn at the meeting this evening*. I'll be hanging out with my friends tonight then." Needless to say they weren't impressed with my attitude. But guess what? I got away with it.
INQ
*does this count as an "excuse" or an actual reason? lol. Hope i'm not going off tangent here.
the wts has figured out that if you bring jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the jw's hold jesus as a central figure in their beliefs.
to anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is.
a publicity stunt.
Forgive my presumptuousness in calling you a Christian, Sue betterdaze. Your defense of a bigoted Christian had me confused. Wanting to get back on the topic is one thing. Arguing in favour of a person who attempts to demean the beliefs of JWs (or those of other persuasions) is quite another. You fail to take into account that Perry attempts to drag ANYONE (not just lurkers) into his pharisaical microscope. I was condemning that self-righteous approach esp in light of his (dubious?) protests that he was similarly mishandled by a JW. That was my message. If you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that little point, then you do not comprehend what some of us posters are trying to do in this thread. And if that is the case, you are guilty of doing exactly what you accused me of: shooting the messenger. INQ
the wts has figured out that if you bring jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the jw's hold jesus as a central figure in their beliefs.
to anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is.
a publicity stunt.
This "shoot the messenger" hijacking happens all the time here... and it's TIRING.
A Christian believer makes a statement about WT doctrine... then non-believers jump in and attack his/her belief in God/Jesus or the bible.
Perry was making a point about Jesus addressed to lurkers, most of whom are JW's who believe in Jesus and will be attending the Memorial in a few weeks. He was trying to open their minds to the basis of a ceremony whereby millions earth wide openly reject the religious figure who supposedly founded their belief system. - betterdaze
Oh get over your martyr complex, sister!
Why do Christians of your variety always assume that people are against your attempts at proselytism? It is not your Christian-making efforts I find offensive, but the way in which you talk down to those who do not share your holy intimacy with Christ.
Given Perry's sanctimonious-let-me-show-you-what-a-sinner-you-are tone, he is opening chasms, not minds. I'm amused that you even think that this tactless messenger has a chance at affecting lurkers the way he is meant to. The messenger is inept. He should be grateful that we're even bothered to point this out to him.
INQ
the wts has figured out that if you bring jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the jw's hold jesus as a central figure in their beliefs.
to anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is.
a publicity stunt.
Where was the sacrifice? At what point did he ever have anything to lose? - paralipo
Well, he lost:
i) a lot of blood and sweat
ii) his composure; that's why he asks Big Daddy why he was forsaken
iii) his life, eventually
and most humiliating of all:
iv) he lost an opportunity to get laid (not the put in a cold stony tomb sense). But of course we all know that our contemporaries e.g. Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Dan Brown would tell you that Jesus didn't really die a virgin.
INQ
the wts has figured out that if you bring jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the jw's hold jesus as a central figure in their beliefs.
to anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is.
a publicity stunt.
In every facet, Perry is the intellectual equivalent of an active JW. - kid A
Hear, hear!
INQ
the wts has figured out that if you bring jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the jw's hold jesus as a central figure in their beliefs.
to anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is.
a publicity stunt.
I doubt this thread was started to attack others who have taken a non-Christian course in some way. Why does it always turn that way? - Jeff
Then that should have been his immediate response to my objection: that he is only interested in JW lurkers. The fact that he attempted to convince me of my fictional sins and that I needed redemption PROVES that his self-righteous message ISN'T SOLELY for JW lurkers, but for ANYONE "silly" enough to reject Christ.
And even if his message was meant for active JWs, I don't understand why evangelicals are not more tactful with their message. Is it necessary for this I-have-the-truth-o-ye-misguided-fool tone to spread the Gospel?
To say that people who reject Christ only do so because they are immobilized by fear or stuck in their own depravity is ultimately rude and condescending. It is rather hypocritical that the same person who previously wailed about being called a liar (without provocation) by a JW man, is now proclaiming to JW lurkers that their version of beliefs is "crap" and a "masterpiece of satanic deception".
Why do fundamentalists not see how similar they are? Sheesh...
INQ
when talking to non jw's and telling them that jw's believe everybody else will be destroyed at the big a for not being a jw and they say they just asked a jw this and the jw said that no they don't believe this, how do i answer without going through the 125+ years of literature?
the jw may even say that is a lie spread by apostates to make them look bad or they are evil, couldn't live up to bible standards, ..... you know the drill.
When talking to non jw's and telling them that jw's believe everybody else will be destroyed at the big A for not being a jw and they say they just asked a jw this and the jw said that no they don't believe this, how do I answer without going through the 125+ years of literature? The jw may even say that is a lie spread by apostates to make them look bad or they are evil, couldn't live up to bible standards, ..... you know the drill.
Dear Carla, If I was subjecting a JW to my personal Inquisition, I would be more specific about whose salvation I'm enquiring about. It is easy to sound generous when the subject is a generic "everybody". I'd ask the JW, "If I was a Buddhist, would I survive the Big A? What if I was the Pope? fan of the Pope? Evangelical? Atheist? Agnostic? Muslim? Do-gooder, Free-thinker?" A shrewd JW response would be to say that decision rests with Jehovah. Then I would say, "What does that mean? Is Jehovah, the smiter of pagan nations in the Old Testament, embarrassingly clueless about His Judgement of these people of modern false religions?" "Or is it a fault in the celestial communication? Is the Faithful Slave/Org/Watchtower Society, the sole dispenser of spiritual truths, completely ignorant of how God feels about the 6.6 billion people on earth?" "If worldly people are not necessarily Armageddon fodder then they can't all be 'bad associations', can they? Has the Watchtower Society recently encouraged JW youths to make more social ties with non-believers? Why not?" I would also add, "If your God is so generous with people of other faiths, persuasions and lifestyles, then there really is no urgency to reach people in the door-to-door work is there? After all, it is even better that they do not get to hear the good news, in order that God may not accidentally find them stubborn towards the Truth? Is your Organization more relaxed about the door to door work today than it was before? Why not?" If the JW should admit that many will die in Armageddon, just not "everyone who isn't a JW", then it is good to ask for an estimate. "Of the 6.6 billion people on earth today, how many would make a 'great crowd' of survivors? 6 million? 7 million? 1 billion? If you can't give me an estimate, how do you know that your Organization does not expect its members to be the sole survivors, esp in light of your feverish proselytism?" INQ
