Taking One for the Team

Perry

The WTS has figured out that if you bring Jesus out once a year, and create a "showy display", then the rank and file will be sufficiently convinced that the JW's hold Jesus as a central figure in their beliefs. To anyone else, it can immediately be seen for what it is. A publicity stunt. The WTS moved Jesus to the back of the bus decades ago and replaced him with the GB. No amount of wishing, hoping, denial or fantasizing can change that

Who Are You said the above on another thread..

It is getting that time of the year to pull Jesus out of the box and dust him off..... but don't touch him! You're not holy enough for that. It is purely a masterpiece of satanic deception.

"A Special Day to Remember"

"An Observance"

"A Memorial"

None of that crap tells the simple story that the Man took one in the gut for all of us so we don't have to take the ultimate shaft at death. And what payment does the Man ask in return for the Roman spearhead in his side? Just once in a while drink some wine and eat some bread and give him thanks.

It seems so easy doesn't it? But, it's not in reality.

"No One can come to me unless it is granted to Him by the Father".

So, which is it lurkers? Do you reject Christ because you're scared of what people will think? Or, do you reject him because you are are unable to come to him by divine mandate and your own "total depravity"?

Inquisitor

So, which is it lurkers? Do you reject Christ because you're scared of what people will think? Or, do you reject him because you are are unable to come to him by divine mandate and your own "total depravity"?

Is that all? People reject Christ solely because they are:

1) cowards? social conformists?

2) depraved beings who revel in "sin"?

Do people not ALSO reject Christ because they have been convinced that he wasn't a historical person (regardless of whether or not you agree with that conviction)?

Do people not ALSO reject Christ because they are seriously hurt by what life throws at them and are thus disillusioned with God?

Do people not ALSO reject Christ because they are unimpressed with the way evangelicals preach a lovey-dovey Christ while simultaneously sweeping under the rug the horribly primitive ethical values (the ethnic cleansing, hooker-butchering, vagina-spearing tales) oozing out of the Old Testament?

You can buy sympathy by telling people how you were ill-treated (unecessarily) by a narrow-minded JW. But you won't see a drop of my sympathy for a sanctimonious, pietistic evangelical preacher on JWD.

INQ

DJK

I reject God, Satan and Christ. I look at them as fables of thier time to prevent man from causing his own extinction. Think of the kaos there could have been before Confucius came up with "There are two roads in life, good and bad".

Perry

Inquisitor,

Have you ever told a lie? Stolen anything? Looked with lust at a married woman, or looked lustfully at any woman while married? Be truthful. So, by your own admission you are a liar, a thief, and an adulterer. Right? And, that's just three of the ten commandments.

When you have been on the receiving end of a theft of something you truly valued what did you wish upon the perp? Jail time or worse? How is it that you judge God unfair if he judges you by your own standard. I mean, what's good for you is good for God right? What we only wish is no big deal for God.

So, God entered into an already fallen world where ALL of the humans could not help but to preach condemnation upon their own selves like I have illustrated in your own personal life above. So, you complain about how God didn't consult you concerning the over arching good that He had in mind when he intervened in human affairs in ways that we don't understand. They and us were already dead, silly. Worse than dead.... we're instruments of our own just end that awaits us because God will judge us not by his standards, but by our own... get it? You are a walking contradiction of your own glorious potential.... you just can't get there on your own. But, the potential is still there and I know that you can imagine it.

Not only does Jesus take the shaft for you, his best friend the Holy Spirit makes possible and shows you how to do things, that at present you can only dream about.

If Jesus isn't real, then he is surely an absolutely needed invention. Of course, millions will testify that their spirits "know" that he is still alive and lives in the Most Holy compartment of his temple.... believer's hearts.

Zico

But Perry, if God created us, wasn't it he who created us with the inability to avoid sin? Edited to add: You didn't actually answer any of Inq's questions.

Brother Apostate

Perry,

Great post. It is obvious that you directed it at current JWs that may be lurking here.

It's true, they reject Christ in a ritual of loathing of what he said to do if we accept His sacrifice.

If you accept Christ, and the redeeming power of His shed blood, in order to enter into His covenant, you must drink His blood and eat His flesh.

Instead, they mock His death by observing rather than partaking.

How very sad that they utterly miss the point of something so simply stated by Him.

BA

PS- To those who claim to be "Christian" and don't follow Christ's clearly stated instructions, how do you live with your hypocrisy?

DJK

Jesus isn't real, then he is surely an absolutely needed invention

Not everyone needs him.

AK - Jeff

It seems obvious that Perrywas addressing Jw's here - lurkers who deny Christ by pretending to accept Him.

I doubt this thread was started to attack others who have taken a non-Christian course in some way. Why does it always turn that way?

Jeff

Perry

zico asked:

But Perry, if God created us, wasn't it he who created us with the inability to avoid sin?

No. Accusing God first, and asking questions later is typical of our fallen nature controlled by our mind and emotions. You would first need to describe what a life would look like without the possibility of sin in order to accurately answer your question. In other words, if sin was not possible would that be a good thing or a bad thing? What might that kind of existence look like? Felons who are in prison have their ability to sin reduced. Is that how you want to live to deal with your sin problem? It isn't the possibility of sin that is evil.

You do ask an awesome question though. It is this question that led me to investigate not just who I am (where I get my identity), but just as importantly what I am (and everyone else for that matter). What are the components that make up our species? (1) I believe the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" whether literal or otherwise was a moral edifice designed to comfort the soul (mind or psyche & includes emotions) of man so that he could have complete confidence that God would teach him nothing but good because He already knew what was bad..... no moral trial and error needed. (2) The comfort of the garden, the opposite sex, and progeny potential tantalized the senses of the body. The body was the recipent of other processes and exercised zero authority. It just endlessly enjoyed. (3) The governing principle of these two components was man's spirit.It was powered by the (zoe) Spirit of God. Like a baloon, God's breath inflated it to exercise complete authority over the mind and body. When Adam "died" his spirit deflated. It no longer was powered by the Spirit of God. It exercised no authority over the mind or body. Is a baloon a baloon if it is not inflated? Technically, but as any child will protest... it's of no use at all. In the absence of authority, the mind (soul) filled the power vaccuum and tried to determine for itself what is good and bad. May I posit that our species simply cannot know in any long term sense the difference between good and bad. Worse, the portion that we do "know", we are unable to power our minds and will sufficiently enough to get us there. We cannot think ourselves into that which we aspire .... thus the term total depravity. It doesn't mean that we cannot do good at times. It means that we cannot stop being a contradiction of our own standards at any time. In other words, the human species is ruined, twisted into a grotesque reflection of its intended experience. So, just like any mother would beg for a kidnapper to take her instead of her beloved child. God agreed to let sin & death take Him instead of his children. Like a conquoring hero, he defeated sin, he abolished death and now offers his undying Life to all of his children.... free of charge. Those that accept his gift are not judged - "I came not to judge but to save". He took the spear shaft for YOU.

Inquisitor

I doubt this thread was started to attack others who have taken a non-Christian course in some way. Why does it always turn that way? - Jeff

Then that should have been his immediate response to my objection: that he is only interested in JW lurkers. The fact that he attempted to convince me of my fictional sins and that I needed redemption PROVES that his self-righteous message ISN'T SOLELY for JW lurkers, but for ANYONE "silly" enough to reject Christ.

And even if his message was meant for active JWs, I don't understand why evangelicals are not more tactful with their message. Is it necessary for this I-have-the-truth-o-ye-misguided-fool tone to spread the Gospel?

To say that people who reject Christ only do so because they are immobilized by fear or stuck in their own depravity is ultimately rude and condescending. It is rather hypocritical that the same person who previously wailed about being called a liar (without provocation) by a JW man, is now proclaiming to JW lurkers that their version of beliefs is "crap" and a "masterpiece of satanic deception".

Why do fundamentalists not see how similar they are? Sheesh...

INQ

Taking One for the Team

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