Posts by 2112

6

D'Fing and Love

by I-CH-TH-U-S in

jw
friends

i once talked to a jw about disfellowshipping and was curious to how can this be showing a christly love when you all out turn your back on them.

he gave me an answer about rightousness and unrightrousness having no fellowship (which is biblical) but it didnt make sense to me.

didnt seem applicable in many ways.

We must not forget that the "punishment" of D'fing starts the moment someone starts to become indoctrinated. Everything that is non-JW is of Satan. So when you leave you are with Satan no matter where you go. (I remember being told that "if you aren't a JW then you are worshiping Satan whether you know it of not." I found it funny that you could deliberately worship some one by accident.) Also if you were a "good JW" then you have already cut off most of your non JW family and friends except for trying to convert them. Then, when you do leave, you do feel alone. As far as the love goes, they tell you that shunning you is showing you love (really they are telling themselves that), but all it is a fear of man. They don't want to be judged but other JW's.

To tell someone that I love you and care about you, just as long as you believe what I believe, when I believe it, and to the same degree I believe it, is not unconditional love. And if there are conditions place upon it is not love it is merely acceptance. Is that not a sad state of affairs that you are only allowed accept your children, (family and friends to) not unconditionally love them. To be able to turn your emotions off like that is a form of psychosis that is highly destructive and anti-social. I know this all seems scary to some but it is a sad reality. I have seen this and a lot worse first hand, as have many others.

42

exjw, is there a script

by carla in

is there any one scripture (or more) that really suprised you once you took the wt glasses off and just read the bible as is, without all the extra literature?

2112

1st John 5 v1

'Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...."

Whoever is anybody and everybody, not a select few.

I love hearing JW's try and explain this one. The most common reply I've heard was "Yes, but that only applies to the anointed" So I had to ask "does that mean that all of 1st John is only talking to the anointed?" I was told yes, at first; until I pointed out that it was just encouragement to love God and your neighbor. Then I was told no all of 1st John was just for the anointed (same conversation mind you) only Ch5 v1. Then I asked for understanding on how you can pick and choose which verses are for the anointed and which are for the pawns. This of course led to the "Don't move ahead of the Organization", The FDS will deliver the proper food and the proper time", and my personal favorite---"We have scholars in

Anyway that was the first scriprture that made me start to open my eyes. It is so simple and to the point.

24

Should jws drink COLA COLA?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

it is alleged that santa was an invention of cola cola back in the 1930s.. due to the pagan connection,should jws drink cola cola?

2112

I believe that one of the heirs of the Coke inventors family is a JW and gives thousands.

Not sure if it's true.

3

A fun discussion to have

by 2112 in

this is the first thread i am starting, hope it works.

i remember being told over and over again "if you are in a religion that teaches everything about god 100% correct with the exception of one thing, no matter how small it may seem.

you must reject that religion as being poison.

2112

Hi all,
This is the first thread I am starting, hope it works.
I remember being told over and over again "If you are in a religion that teaches everything about God 100% correct with the exception of one thing, no matter how small it may seem. You must reject that religion as being poison. After all would you drink a glass of water if it only had one drop of poison in it?" I try to bring that up at the beginning of some conversations and they will quickly agree, until their teachings are shown to by questionable. If they will agree to that ahead of time, I will continue. Next I will show them just one teaching of theirs that has changed ask the logical question - "If your organization taught such and such and now teaches the opposite, should not all of those who were taught the previous have left the organization?" It's sometimes funny to hear the responses, depending on the issue. And then take them to an issue that the WT has gone back and forth on, like the resurrection of the sodomites, that’s a fun one. I point out there flip flopping on this subject. Then ask "Are you being poisoned now or were you being poisoned then, or will you be poisoned later?" I say this is fun when you let them try and defend this then I end up showing them the in June 1988 they taught both, the Sodomites will be resurrected (Insight on The Scriptures) and they won’t be resurrected (WT June 1st 1988). I know that these are not the kinds of discussions that win hearts, but when JW co-workers try and throw their theocratic weight around, this is one way to show them for who they are in front of non witnesses.
Am I too harsh?

28

Elders coming over next week to discuss my questions

by Goldminer in

three months ago an elder came to our house to try to answer some of my questions.none were answered to my satisfaction and it was obvious some seemed difficult to him so he said he would do some more research and get back to me.well,last night at the meeting he told my wife that he and another elder would like to come over next week to continue our original conversation.. my wife told them that i didn't really want to be a jw anymore and they said they weren't giving up on me just yet.they also said they like me as a person and i really don't think they want to df me anytime soon as this would be too traumatic to my wife and might push her out of the religion for good.. my plan is to start with the first question and stick to it until it is answered to my satisfaction which i doubt it can be.it is the following:.

where does the bible say that god has an "organization" on earth and uses a governing body to direct it?.

i have some research ready to use but i'd like to ask you if you have any comments or information you'd like to share that i can use in some way.i appreciate all your help on this one and i'll keep you posted on how it goes next week.thank you very much.. goldminer

2112

That apporach is good. Ask them which is the final athority the Bible or the WT.

When they say the Bible, interupt them at that point and say good let's just use the Bible. They will try and bring in the WT during the dicsussion don't let them. If they say that you need the WT to understand the Bible then just ask if Gods word is complete or not.

Then again you may want to just 'Smile and wave" to avoid any confrontations, as Jeff said "Be Careful".

They aren't on a social call they are far to busy doing the Lords work to be bothered by all that touchy feely stuff, they are on a mission. Their mission sadly, is probably to beat you into sumission and don't think for a moment that they care if it would be hard on your wife if you are expeled. She will be used as proof that you are evil if she leaves or held up as an example of how to handle a evil mate. Either way, to them she is collateral damage.

25

Did You Know A Lot Of Witnesses That Were A "Little Fruit Loops"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i did, i was thinking of how many jws are either a little weird, a bit eccentric or even borderline crazy!

we had one man in our hall that used to love giving people he liked duck eggs.

he'd try to get you to eat them before meetings for field service.

2112

I'll try again.

I remember going with my father, an elder, to another elder’s house about twice a month or so because his wife had called for help. This other elder, the

25

Did You Know A Lot Of Witnesses That Were A "Little Fruit Loops"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i did, i was thinking of how many jws are either a little weird, a bit eccentric or even borderline crazy!

we had one man in our hall that used to love giving people he liked duck eggs.

he'd try to get you to eat them before meetings for field service.

2112

I remember going with my father, an elder, to another elder’s house about twice a month or so because his wife had called for help. This other elder, the

28

Elders coming over next week to discuss my questions

by Goldminer in

three months ago an elder came to our house to try to answer some of my questions.none were answered to my satisfaction and it was obvious some seemed difficult to him so he said he would do some more research and get back to me.well,last night at the meeting he told my wife that he and another elder would like to come over next week to continue our original conversation.. my wife told them that i didn't really want to be a jw anymore and they said they weren't giving up on me just yet.they also said they like me as a person and i really don't think they want to df me anytime soon as this would be too traumatic to my wife and might push her out of the religion for good.. my plan is to start with the first question and stick to it until it is answered to my satisfaction which i doubt it can be.it is the following:.

where does the bible say that god has an "organization" on earth and uses a governing body to direct it?.

i have some research ready to use but i'd like to ask you if you have any comments or information you'd like to share that i can use in some way.i appreciate all your help on this one and i'll keep you posted on how it goes next week.thank you very much.. goldminer

2112

A good point to mention is King David and King Saul.

Saul was Gods anointed King; therefore he was the arraignment (or organization). David was also anointed but only to be King not as King. I know that Saul was also trying to kill David at times however he was still (by WT reasoning) to be loyal to, follow and obey Saul. Did he? No. So he must have been an apostate, as he publicly said that Saul was wrong. Meaning that the organization was wrong (again by WT reasoning). Next David was not alone; did not a few hundred men go with and follow David? So they to went against Gods anointed -the organization. Now when Saul, Gods anointed, died what happened to these men who were disobedient to the organization? Well David was blessed and was made King-after all he was anointed to be King despite going against the organization. What about those who followed David, they were not anointed so they could not claim that as an excuse. Nor was Saul trying to kill them. So what was their reward? They to were blessed by God. Not a bad deal for opposing the organization.

One final point is this David held even after Saul was killed that Saul was Gods anointed and that is why David had the person who claimed to kill Saul put to death. "Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying “I have killed the Lord's anointed"

In the Bible God always uses individuals not an organization.

I hope this helps.

37

Lies, Damn Lies, and "Experiences"

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

once, discussing the recently passed circuit assembly.

he had interviewed a young pioneer that was able to pioneer without a car.

she "arranged her schedule" (translation: bummed rides well in advance) to make sure she had a way to and from the hall.

2112

Hi all,

Thanks for the board, this is my first post.

I have to say the most blatent lie I heard was at my last assembly.

It was said during a talk that "We have no broken homes in our organization". When I heard that I blurted out "What a bunch of crap!" which did not sit well with my father who was an elder at the time. I was asked "What was that about?" to which I answered "We have seven in ourcongregation alone." Of coursed I was corrected by being reminded that in each of those cases that someone was given the boot. Silly me.