Posts by crownboy

35

The story of Samson

by Simon in

just a few things in the account that don't make sense and lead me to believe it's just a made of story (really?

a guy with superhuman power?

who would have thought... ).

crownboy

RWC says:

First he was a Nazirite from birth. That means through his parents they made a vow that he would never drink wine, never cut his hair, and never have contact with the dead. The fact that he attributed his strength to his hair was really attributing it to God through the vow that he had made.

If Samson was attributing his strength directly to God, he would have said so ( a la Solomon and is wisdom, or was his wisdom only good as long as he grew his beard? ). If his hair had nothing to do with it, then it wouldn't have been mentioned (why was he still strong while having illicit sex with Deliliah when his hair was still long? If it was "all about God" he would have lost his strength from the time he started doing Delilah). If it was "all about God" he would have told Deliliah "YHWH is responsible for my strength, and my continued good relationship with him is all that keeps me strong." But he didn't say that, did he? I wonder why?

Second, the text makes it clear that the reason he finally gave in to Delilah was because she nagged him everyday about it until he was tired to death. Who hasn't done that in their lifetime.

Are you serious? We may give in on insignificant issues, but who the hell compromises on possible life endangering issues? (Wife ask husband "can I chop of your legs?". After wife ask this question several times husband gets tired of her nagging and allows her to harm him. Sounds realistic.) Samson must have been a real ass to not see that Delilah was ploting against him all that time. This tells me that Samson was either a real idiot, or this is just another ancient fable trying to tell a moral but nontheless employing totally unrealistic logic (or Deliliah was really good in the sack ).

Third he lost his strength, not because of his hair, but because the Lord had left him for breaking his vow.

Appearantly "sleeping with the enemy" is acceptable to God, but heavens forbid your hair get involuntarily cut off (albeit you were an ass for not seeing it coming ). As was alrealdy brought up, why was it necessary for his hair to grow back for him to bring down the pillars in the palace? If the hair was just a symbol, why wasn't it portrayed as one in the bible and not only by mordern apologist?

The fact that the Philistines would allow his hair to grow back was because they didn't believe in God and because they had left him to rot in prison. Only when they thought that they were invincible did they call for him to come to the party where he killed them.

They didn't believe in YHWH?(Not worship Him but acknoweledge that he was the real "source of strength", much like many of the Isrealites enemies acknowledged YHWH but still mocked him for whatever reason.) So I guess it really was understood that the hair was the real source of strength? If so, they should have been especially vigilant to make sure that this guys hair would never grow back. Did they forget what he did with the jawbone of a donkey ? This guy was dangerous when armed (with hair). It would be the equivalent of us arming dangerous criminals. Apparently, both Samson and the Philistines were real dimwits who both deserved death .

Don't know much about the "fox thing" but quite interesting. Good points, Simon. When are you going to turn back on editying ?

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

4

Strange arguments (and funny :)

by crownboy in

jw
friends

got this email from one of my christain non-jw friends recently:.

imagine this happening to you.. one sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying submachine guns.

one of the men proclaimed,"anyone willing to take a bullet for christ remain where you are.".

crownboy

I just had to shake my head when I got this email.
There were just too many things wrong with the picture painted. I especially liked:

Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

How can anyone seriously compare the two? Newspaper stories can be backed up with real, hard documented proof, no need for "apologist" to justify what's written. There are usually several sources that report the same story of what happened in a given situation, not conflicting accounts. If newspapers were as unreliable as the bible, their popularity would plummet, much like the bible's (sure, most people might own a bible, but how many actually read it and give a damn about it?).

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

4

Strange arguments (and funny :)

by crownboy in

jw
friends

got this email from one of my christain non-jw friends recently:.

imagine this happening to you.. one sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying submachine guns.

one of the men proclaimed,"anyone willing to take a bullet for christ remain where you are.".

crownboy

Got this email from one of my Christain non-JW friends recently:

Imagine this happening to you.
One Sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying submachine guns. One of the men proclaimed,"Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ remain where you are."

Immediately, the choir fled,the deacons fled, and most of the congregation fled. Out of the 2,000 there only remained around 20.

The man who had spoken took off his hood, looked at the preacher and said "Okay Pastor, I got rid of all the hypocrites. Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!" And the two men turned and walked out.

Too deep not to pass on...

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God ... and then wonder why the world is in the condition it is today..

Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.

Funny or is it scary?

Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan (who, by the way, also "believes" in God).

Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace, but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and work place.

Funny, isn't it? Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them.

Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me.

Are you thinking?

Will you share this with people you care about? Or not?

I picked you~

My instructions were to send this to people that I wanted God to bless and I picked you. Please pass this to people you want to bless.

Strange (and funny ), don't you think?

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

42

Why are men so fascinated with Breasts?

by butalbee in

come on boys, tell me what is your fascination with clevage?

do you dream of big breasts?

does the cup size really matter?

crownboy

Good post, hippikon.

I guess we do it for our health.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

24

hypocritical parents anyone?

by collegegirl in

jw
friends

i was reading one of the posts earlier about how hypocrisy among the rank and file really pushed some over the edge.... well, how about this one?

my mom and i were watching pretty woman on tv tonight (edited version).

it is her favorite movie, so i told her i was going to buy it for her.

crownboy

Hey collegegirl, welcome to the board!

I'm in a situation basically almost like yours. I am 19, born into "the truth", go to college (and loving it, just like you ), know the "truth about the truth", but due to my entire family on both sides being "in the truth" leaving right now is not an option (ok, so they're 4 members who aren't in ).

I too lurked for a while before posting, but now this place has turned out to be a very good place for me. This is the only place where I can sound off my real feelings about the JW's without being looked at suspiciously (in fact, if I were too pro- JW I might be labelled a troll ), although I do drop hints to my family from time to time, especially with my little sister who shares a couple of my views (e.g. the futility of field service). My views have changed pretty drastically over the past three years since I started my "truth quest", but being able to investigate things for yourself freely is indeed one of the great things that freeing yourself from "JW think" does for you. Hopefully you'll enjoy this board as much as I do (I'm more of a reader than a poster), and I look forward to reading more of your post.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

11

question about racial demographics

by Iris10401 in

hello...i hope this is the proper place to pose my question.. i've been meeting with a fine jw couple for several months now and i have attended meetings with them twice at the kingdom hall.

a large segment of the congregation were people of color and it also seems that whenever i meet a jw on the street, they are more often than not african-american.

i was wondering if there was some explanation for this, or is just coincidence?

crownboy

. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=21125

Iris10401, check out the above link for information pertaining to the U.S. (I think the U.S. numbers are 46% white, 37% black)

A large segment of the congregation were people of color and it also seems that whenever I meet a JW on the street, they are more often than not African-American. I was wondering if there was some explanation for this, or is just coincidence?

Which state are you from? That probably would explain the answer. However, if you live in an overwhelminly white area, yet you seem to encounter many blacks, that would be weird .

Is there some element of JW doctrine that appeals to people of color?

Not so much an element that appeals to "people of color" specifically, as it is an appeal to oppressed or poor people. A large segment of the black population isn't exactly "rolling in money", so a religion that promises great future material gains to its membership will likely draw people who are poor and are striving for such a goal (and feel that current conditions in "this world" won't allow them a chance to acheive great wealth). There is no perceivable practice of racism in the JW religion, so many minorites feel at home. Many are allowed to reach high positions, so power may be a factor in some joining and staying (though not the only reason, of course). Being black myself, I can honestly say that racial issues have absolutely no bearing on my current distaste for the religion, and most on this board can attest to this. The Governing Body not having a black person on it untill recently probably didn't bother too many, as not too many JW's "of color" declare themselves "of the annointed", which is one of many requirements for making it there. (In my time as a Witness, I've only known 2 black "annointeds", and both were women, which of course would disqualify them from being an Elder, much less be on the Governing Body). I hope I was of some help.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

32

Biggest Mathematical Miracle in the World

by Moxy in

jw
friends

oh lordy.

i dont usually post these messages i get from jw mailing lists.

but this one is pretty hilarious:.

crownboy

tyydyy said:

And then after just crossing the red sea, seeing the columns of smoke and fire every day, recieving the manna every day and getting water miraculously, they decided to build a golden calf to worship. Oh yeah, that's believable. But the guy who actually made the idol (Aaron) isn't even punished by this "jealous" god.

So true. One of the things that really perplexed me about the Isrealites was their ability to disregard all the miraculous things that God would provide for them and then do something stupid like worship the Golden Calf. After you have seen a God who could part a Sea, you're actually going to doubt his power, and actually do something you know displeases Him? For those stories to be true, the Isrealites would have had to be the most brain-dead, stupid, ignorant people ever to have graced our planet. Few of us skeptics would doubt God's existence today if miracles occured as in the Bible, and certainly none should have at such a primitive time in mordern man's history. If the Isrealites could doubt in the face of such sure evidence, what chance do we have today ?

Aaron being spared is a total injustice. In my opinion he was the most guilty party in the whole thing, seeing that he was a High Priest, and also given the fact that he was the one who actually made the calf (he could have tried to "talk some sense" into the Isrealites). If as the book of Deutoronomy (sp?) states, Aaron was saved because Moses "had his back" and begged God to save Aaron, why couldn't Moses be so merciful for the rest of the Isrealites? If, in Moses' mind, the great High Priset Aaron could be forgiven for his actions, why not the less "spiritual" and less responsible Isrealites? Apparently, "meek man" Moses wasn't too regretful about killing people unless they were related to him.

Francois asked:

How 'bout sandlas for people walking for forty years? I guess they made them from the sheep and goats. They had that many?.

Actually, God made sure that their clothes and sandals would not wear out during the forty year trek (very convienient). Imagine wearing the same clothes for 40 years.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

3

JW's and recycling

by crownboy in

jw
friends

the jw corporation probably produces more useless literature than any other corporation on the planet (or are at least in the top 10).

probably over half of the magazines they print go to waste.

even the most zealous of poineers has a huge pile of "unplaced" magazines in their house (for us less "zealous ones" the pile may get quite prodigious .

crownboy

Good point, Mindfield.

The fact that you print a ton of literature means nothing if most of it goes to waste, which is precisely what happens with many of the Society's publications. How much literature you produce has nothing to do with whether you are "approved by God" or not; it's whether you're following "the will of God", which the Society falls far short of doing on many things.

Good point Lisa, but one of the ways in which you get to be part of that 1% is following God's laws pertaining to not ruining the earth (even though God will restore it all afterward ).

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

3

JW's and recycling

by crownboy in

jw
friends

the jw corporation probably produces more useless literature than any other corporation on the planet (or are at least in the top 10).

probably over half of the magazines they print go to waste.

even the most zealous of poineers has a huge pile of "unplaced" magazines in their house (for us less "zealous ones" the pile may get quite prodigious .

crownboy

The JW corporation probably produces more useless literature than any other corporation on the planet (or are at least in the top 10). Probably over half of the magazines they print go to waste. Even the most zealous of poineers has a huge pile of "unplaced" magazines in their house (for us less "zealous ones" the pile may get quite prodigious ). Think of all the trees that go to waste to produce this garbage. If God will really "put to ruin those ruining the earth", the Watchtower corporation should be on his list for producing their literature .

If the JW's are going to produce useless books, at the very least they should do their part in helping the earth. Wouldn't recycling old magazines be a good way to do this? Instead of having old magazines & books that aren't part of a Witnesses personal library eventually go in the garbage or to a state recycling program, the JW corporation should take these useless magazines back and reuse the paper, hence saving on waste. I don't know if recycling paper cost more than buying it brand new (maybe that's why the Org. hasn't done it), but recycling is definitely kinder to our planet. Have a letter to the congreation read, telling of this "simplified" arrangement. Tell the congreations that they should co operate with the "faithful and discreet slave" and no doubt most JW's would jump on board with the idea. If this arrangement will cost them more, they can always "suggest" that the Witnesses give a little something extra, perhaps setting up a "Kingdom Recycling Fund" run by the newly formed corporation "Kingdom Recyclers of Jehovah's Witnesses". That way, at least the end result will be a lessening of the waste of our precious resources.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

125

Ya'll dont believe in God?

by flower in

jw
friends

i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.

i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.

this is disturbing!

crownboy

Thanks for the replies

Flower said:

crownboy, i disagree partially. i no longer believe that i will be killed if i do or dont do something.

Good.

a lot of what you said about christians is actually just the jw way of thinking...not true christianity. i dont subscribe to the rules anymore.

It absolutely is true Christianity. Let me first of all say I'm not trying to assasinate the character of Christains. My argument wasn't that Christains are incapable of doing good without God telling them (I belive just the opposite, Christains tell God what is good since they made up the bible), my argument was that according to the bible a person cannot simply "be saved" by faith alone, but works are absolutely necessary to be saved. I think the scripture were Paul talks about us "being saved by grace" means that God is not obligated to save us, whether we're good or bad because he's so big and powerful and we're so puny. It does not mean that we can do whatever we want and God will forgive us. Sunbeam's post was trying to say that if we love God we'll do good.

The good works flow from the new life we receive, not in the hope that they will stop God from killing us if we step out of line. A Christian is 'a new creation in Christ - the old has gone, the new has come.' (2 Co, 5)

But the whole thing employs a sort of circular logic:
Why do I do "good"? Because I belive Jesus is my saviour.

How do I know that Jesus is my saviour? Because I do "good".

It is quite possible for me to both accept Jesus as my saviour and not do good. This is not a logical impossibilty. You may argue that a "true" Christain would always do "good", but if a "true" Christain is only saved by "faith alone" and not "works" then I can quite plausibly do bad and still be saved because I believe Jesus of Nazereth died for my sins. Obviously, this is false and I know of no Christain theology (nor a Bible) that teaches this. While faith in Jesus is fine and dandy, you need to show works to please God. Whether you would do these works regardless of whether you believed in god or not is irrelevent as to the necessity of these "works" for your salvation. Whether you would pay taxes if they were voluntary is irrelevant to the fact that you must pay them. So basically, my post was addressing the neccessity of works as opposed to a Christain's heart condition. Since Christain's know that they must perform certain works for God to save them, I agreed with Mommy's statement that a Christain has to do good deeds to save himself (this is not the same as saying Christains only do things to save themselves, and it seems as if Mommy has cleared that point up), whereas atheist don't do good deeds for any cosmic reward from any zany deity.

Flower also said:

i do what i feel is right. if i want to have premarital sex i would not feel that god is going to turn his back on me because of it.

Actually, according to the bible "fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom", so yes, God will "turn is back on you" (unless of course, you repent, and back it up by works and not faith alone ).

Obviously, I don't personally judge you for having pre martial sex, as I think this is just one man's (stupid) opinion of God. But if you are a Christain you can't pick and choose what you want to follow. By the fact that you choose to ignore this rule, you've either decided that the rule is silly or unimportant (despite your life being on the line for ignoring it). How can you decide which scriptures you heed, and which you ignore? Why can the bibles rules against fornication be ignored, but you take the afterlife concept and the existence of God with dead seriousness? Why only like the scriptures that make you feel "warm and fuzzy inside", but ignore or explain away the scriptures where God is a complete murderous jerk or demands we do something uncaring (like hate unbelievers)? They are all part of the bible canon, they are "all inspired of God". If we start picking and choosing which we like, that puts the validity of the whole cannon at stake (St. Augustine wrote a great essay on this), and instead of doing as "God says", we're doing as "we please", i.e. making moral judgements apart from God. Most non- Christain societies are pretty good at making moral judgements, they didn't need YHWH. Most Christain's are pretty good at "editing" YHWH into a nicer guy than he really is. We obviously have moral scruples aside from YHWH, since the world has moral societies that know nothing of him, and Christain's are bothered when they read about YHWH being a muderous lunatic, or a deity who would destroy someone for having pre marital sex. It simply doesn't sit well with us.

i think you are mistaken in thinking that christians are only good out of fear of god. yes i want to please god but i do good because i 'want' to. i dont always walk around thinking 'hey god look, did you see that? i was just really nice to that old lady'.

Well, I already told you I don't think Christain's are only good because of God, but I do hold that the Christain God would hold not helping the old lady against you.

The reason you do good is because of your nature, not because of YHWH. There are acts of altruism throughout the animal kingdom, only humans attribute their ability to do good to some deity. While you certainly do good acts because 'you want to', do you worship God simply because you want to, or because of a reward? (WORSHIPPING GOD NOT THE SAME AS SIMPLY "DOING GOOD") Isn't the whole reason you worship God a matter of Him bringing purpose to your life (selfish, though laudible), rather than straight up gratitude? If God didn't serve a puropse for you would you care about him? It wouldn't make you a "bad person", but it's certainly more than just "gratitude".

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!