Posts by MuadDib

4

Trends within the organization

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

a little background before i get to my main thought.

first of all: my dad is a pretty pedantic guy and he likes to keep track of all the stats in the annual statistical summary of the society - numbers in different countries, which countries grow and which shrink, that sort of thing.

he got me into it too, a few years ago, and i've noticed (as i'm sure many of you have) the general downward trend in membership in the western world - north america and europe - and the complimentary growth in the third world - especially africa.

MuadDib

A little background before I get to my main thought. First of all: my dad is a pretty pedantic guy and he likes to keep track of all the stats in the annual statistical summary of the Society - numbers in different countries, which countries grow and which shrink, that sort of thing. He got me into it too, a few years ago, and I've noticed (as I'm sure many of you have) the general downward trend in membership in the Western world - North America and Europe - and the complimentary growth in the Third World - especially Africa. Second: at a bookstudy a few months ago, our conductor produced information on the current members of the Governing Body. All white, all American (maybe a couple of West Europeans, I can't really remember) and all old (couple of centenarians even). I was unimpressed - not very many tribes, nations, peoples, or tongues represented there.

Putting this information together - how likely do you think we are to see a growing Third World influence over the Society? The rich white guys run the show now, but they're getting on and their demographic is shrinking as a proportion of adherents while poorer people of different ethnicities are growing in preponderance and, presumably, influence. This is a trend that's influencing other religions as well, with Anglican dioceses in Africa sending priests to serve in England and South American Catholics being considered for the position of Pope. So are we bound to see some brown or black faces on future incarnations of the Governing Body? Will Bethels in the Third World become the sites of more printing or administrative operations? Will doctrine maybe be influenced by the contribution of people from non-Western cultures? Or will the trend be resisted to the last by the classes entrenched in power over the organization?

It's not like I really care, I just think it would be neat if there was some huge schism in the JWs as a result of these kinds of things. If nothing else, maybe it would show that God's chosen religion is subject to the same forces and trends as the rest of the world.

52

Okay: Who is Barb & What's the "news"?

by lynnmelo in

jw
friends

.

i know no one really knows what the content of the "news" is, but i don't even know what news you guys are waiting for.

i've been reading some posts referencing "barb" and "the news," so i wasn't wondering if someone could give me some background (i've looked a few pages back and can't find anything).. thanks.

MuadDib

"I think I may have connected a dot or two and come up with a Matisse. If the way my thoughts are running is in line with the real deal this may be the break in the hull of Constitutionalized protections for institutional religion—and tilting of the scales in favor of the individual—that a lot of religious people have been waiting for. It may eventually be much bigger news than for just JWs, but JWs will be in the mix."

I've often thought of what the internal reaction to such a thing would be. Obviously the JWs are going to take any indication of such a thing as the onset of the scarlet-coloured beast's attack on Babylon the Great - aka the destruction of all world religions by secular governments. It would be neat to see how that would shake them up, especially when nothing really happened... probably another aggressive campaign by the Society ala 1975, lots of people selling their houses and pulling their kids out of school, and then leaving in droves after the fallout from the non-event.

13

Something I have noticed

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

the last few district conventions i've been to, i haven't really been paying attention.

at lunchtime i'd kind of just keep to myself and wander around.

and i started picking up on something.

MuadDib

The last few district conventions I've been to, I haven't really been paying attention. At lunchtime I'd kind of just keep to myself and wander around. And I started picking up on something. Young Jehovah's Witness guys, at least in my corner of the world, are pretty much a bunch of duds. They look right at home in the shirt/tie/handbag combo and you just can't picture them lounging around with a brew playing cards and telling dirty jokes, or dancing at the bar, or whatever. And all these guys are walking around with these GORGEOUS girls on their arms! The kind of girls where you get nervous just thinking about what it might be like to consider maybe talking to them. It's unbelievable.

So what's the deal? Is it some kind of cruel joke on the part of the universe, sequestering all these amazing women in this sadistically repressed religion? Do these unattainable young beauties just swoon over the prospect of landing the guy working the amp Wednesday nights at the Hall? Is there some kind of correlation between penis size and number of hours spent in service? Or are these guys just the only option open to these girls so they take what they can get? It's really kind of weird. Makes me wonder if I should shave, drop out of school, and start door-knocking again... might be worth it to wake up next to one of these ladies every day. Don't think I haven't thought this over.

20

A question for all the new ones

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

what made you decide to post?.

i know some lurk for a while - sometimes a long while.

others find the site and do a bit of reading and sign and post immediately.

MuadDib

I didn't lurk around or anything. I was reading about JWs on Wikipedia, just to see what a reasonably balanced outside appraisal of the religion would look like, and followed their link to this page. I saw quite a few threads that seemed to indicate this would be a place where I could find people with similar experiences to my own, and it occurred to me that a messageboard would be an ideal medium for expressing my thoughts and working my way through my issues by discussing them with others. So I signed up and here I am. I already feel better for it - no wonder the Society warns us about places like this all the time.

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

It's great to see so many encouraging replies - thanks again, everybody. Especially truman for reminding me of the litany against fear - "I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." A pretty helpful mantra, when you think about it. It's cool to see so many Dune fans here - definitely wasn't expecting that.

It's interesting to see so many recommending the fade-out. The thing is that I feel as though I've already been doing that for long enough, and I just want the whole affair over and done with. It's been two-plus years since I gave a talk, longer since I let my service dwindle to one Saturday a month; since getting my own place a few months ago I've all but completely stopped attending meetings. I've been concealing various "worldly" habits from my family for years. I'm tired of lying, and of seeing people hold out hope for my reconnection to the religion when I know it will never happen. I think what I will do is follow the suggestion a couple of people made and just cut it off for good, starting now, and hope to be left alone. If the elders want to make something of it, I have more than enough historical and scientific knowledge at my disposal to put a stop to that right quick. If my parents want to make something of it... well, I just hope I'll be able to get them to come around and see where I'm coming from, and maintain my relationship with them. Either way, I'll do my damnedest to make this as easy on them as possible.

Damn, I said I'd be at the circuit assembly tomorrow too. Looks like I'll have some more explaining to do over the weekend, LOL...

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

I'm not blaming anybody for anything - where did you get that from? That things are the way they are is nobody's fault. I do think, however, that I am typical of many people who leave in that free-thinking individuals have no time for the type of behaviour control and thought modification practiced by the Jehovoh's.

Your tactic of trying to shame and belittle people into changing their minds only serves to prove my every point. It's nice to be right: thanks for contributing.

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

"The problem is with me." I would expect nothing less from a committed JW. Do yourself a favour, man, and quit hating on yourself. You're not a bad person for wanting to be normal.

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

Wow. Thanks very much for all the replies. I guess the slow fade tactic is a possibility since I'm fairly well along in it already (I grew a BEARD(!!!) two years ago, saw no service last month and no meetings attended in close to a month). I do, however, think that I really need to make a clean break of it, if only for the sake of my own mental health. This attenutated stress is getting close to overwhelming - a function of the behavioural conditioning, I guess. I got to cut it off.

I really wish there was some way to conclude a total separation without the possibility of a disfellowshipment, but that seems the more likely scenario, knowing these people. The thing of it is that I think I could sell the fam on a disassociation - they're actually pretty level-headed underneath the typical JW overlay; my parents are both educated people and I think there was always an expectation that I would be as well. It just led me down a different path, I guess. A disfellowship, though... ostracism is a very effective tool in any social circle. That would be terrible.

Thanks again for the support and advice, everybody. I want a clean break, but maybe you're right and the slow dropout would be better... we'll see. I'll stick around and let you guys know what's going on. Shit, I should have taken my sister's route and just not bothered with the whole baptism thing.

P.S. - Yeah, I'm a pretty big Dune fan - read the whole series back to back a couple of years ago. It really opened my mind and I've thought in a slightly different way ever since, I think. There's always somebody out there who recognizes the name eventually. :)

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

Yeah, I got baptized at 18 (I'm now 22). I did it to please my family - especially my mom - and I guess because I thought, having finished high school, it was time to knock down another landmark or something. I wasn't in university at the time and was considering getting more serious about the JWs. Three months later I smoked my first joint - all uphill from there.

40

Looking for some advice

by MuadDib in

jw
friends

i'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).

i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.

i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.

MuadDib

Hi all. I'm a young man raised in the JWs, been meaning to get the hell out of Dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the JW conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun). I have no qualms about leaving the organization, I don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family. I love my family deeply and I know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what I know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress. I've already hit on the idea of writing a letter and explaining my stance, but I am wondering if anybody would care to describe a similar experience or offer me some guidance as to how I can couch this in a way that will maybe let them down a bit more easily. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated, thanks in advance.