Posts by MuadDib

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

"whatever its merits I get plenty of attention"

Ah, now we come to the true crux of the matter! You're not interested at all in establishing an honest interpretation of the evidence, you just want to stir up the pot. Your posts here attract attention because, unlike yourself, many of the posters here seem committed to an honest personal exploration of issues that hold both personal and intellectual attraction for them. They really, genuinely want to know and hence are irritated by your airy, feeble claims to credibility (not to mention your obvious trolling). When a mind is genuinely possessed with the desire for knowledge and wisdom it will react strongly against a mediocre intellect like your own, claiming validity and credulity while simultaneously flying in the face of all the progress in human thought made over the last two millennia.

"I have no intention of identifying and describing the credentials of the celebrated ones for it is far better and wiser for you to benefit from their research published in WT publications over many decades."

Are you so far detached from rational debate that you are unable to see that a vital part of benefitting from any source of information is the rigourous examination of its origins? Again you reveal that you are totally uninterested in the real nature of research, and far more interested in the masturbatory promotion of a single viewpoint at the expense of all intellectual honesty. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that kind of attitude? How can you call yourself a scholar when you are so fundamentally unaware of what it takes to actually be a scholar?

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

"If you are concerned about the celebrated WT scholars then you should just relax and enjoy the fine spiritual food coming from the faithful and discreet slave"

Ah, the disingenuity of the blind, unquestioning sheep, inisisting that blind faith in an institutional authority is superior to personal investigation based on objective research into scientific methodology. Seriously, aren't you embarrassed to write these words down? Isn't there something in your rational mind, stunted and primitive though it might be, that recoils against such blatantly shallow paranoia? How can you honestly claim that it is better to simply accept the assertions of a group of men with no standing other than that which exists within the personal bias of the spiritual believer, than it is to investigate the true nature of reality based on whatever critically assessed sources are available? You are telling your audience to simply accept what it they are told by a very specific group rather than seeking out the truth for themselves based on their own powers of analysis and discernment. Your attitude is perfectly reminiscent of the most sickeningly debased, twisted, insane meanderings of the human mind that have characterized all of the regressive, stagnant, toxically disfunctional systems of thought and belief in human society.

You're killin' it, holmes! You're debating on a level far, far below that of all of your opponents in this thread. Bluster and pitiable apology is a poor match for the facts you've been presented with by these guys. Give it up, you'll only make the WTS look even worse. If you're unable to debate on even terms, which is patently obvious to even the most casual observer, then why don't you leave the point alone instead of giving them all more ammo? Are you that swept up in your own legalistic, bureaucratic belief system? How laughably pathetic.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

But I do enjoy your posts, scholar! I enjoy the sheer sense of self-satisfaction I derive from knowing how powerfully ignorant your reasoning is, and how inferior it is to actual academic methodology. I revel in the intellectual gulf that separates fundamentalist crackpots like yourself from people who are actually capable of honestly working through the available facts and evidence in order to reach a rational conclusion. I bask in the knowledge that I am no longer like you and am able to think freely for myself instead of being mentally imprisoned in a vortex of paranoia and inadequacy. Where did I say I didn't enjoy your posts? All I said was that they indicate a weak and feeble excuse for scholasticism, not that I don't enjoy them. Come now, don't put words in my mouth.

By the way, can you please name some of these "celebrated WT scholars"? I would be most interested in an investigation of their credentials and academic standing. What exactly qualifies these people, whose extremely poorly supported opinions contravene every accepted hypothesis relevant to history (and just about every other major discipline), "celebrated scholars"? In which peer-reviewed publications will I find their contributions to our understanding of history? Which institutions laud them as recognized authorities on ancient history and religion? To which major reference works or definitive publications have they contributed? In short: put up or shut up, you fundie lunatic. You're wasting everybody's time with your hollow delusions and, while you're good for a laugh every now and then, it would be nice to see something - ANYTHING - of substance from you. Something to justify the sheer hypocrisy in choosing "scholar" as your nickname (I might just as well have picked "Latvian" for mine).

Seriously. Time to change the record. The last one's broken.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

"I have over thirty years studying chronology and have completed postgraduate studies in Religion, Theology and Philosophy so I think I have good experience in all such matters."

Really? I only have about six years of studying history under my belt and I can tell you're so full of shit you can't tell your ass from your elbow. You possess absolutely none of the "intellectual credibility" you claim - in fact, everything you have said so far in this thread demonstrates exactly the opposite; that you have no intellectual credibility (and, I suspect, no accreditation or achievement to your name at all) and you are completely ignorant of academic methodology. No wonder you profess not to care for secular studies - you'd be laughed out of any serious dicussion with real scholars so fast so your head would spin.

Well, keep rambling. The world will continue to move on, and with any luck you and your toxically ignorant ilk will be left behind to molder in your own self-aggrandized delusions. The rest of us - those who actually take scholasticism seriously and know what the hell they're talking about - take great comfort that we have a better handle on things.

23

Why did Jehovah make Jews kill for the Promise Land?!!!!

by Spectrum in

it sounds rediculous, doesn't it?

jehovah promised the jews the land of canaan that was inhabited by many tribes.

he had the power to give it to them peacefully but instead got them to commit genocide, rape and pillage and destruction.

MuadDib

*Applause for Leolaia*

I like what lowden said there about the Insight book - three million local inhabitants slaughtered by one million Israelites (I believe that's the commonly asserted figure) in one of history's most colossal ethnic migrations, a vast, violent, destructive demographic shift larger even than the horrific flight of ethnic Germans before the Soviet armies in 1945, larger than the enormous movements of people over the borders of India and Pakistan after the 1947 partition, maybe on a par with the great Indo-Aryan migrations of the Bronze Age! Pretty dramatic stuff.

Of course what the Bible doesn't tell you is how Jehovah subsequently tampered with all the archaeological evidence to deliberately make it look like ancient Israel was nothing but a dirt-poor backwater with a population of only a few hundred thousand people, perpetually subject to domination by richer and more populous civilizations in Mittani, Egypt, or Anatolia. Or how he erased all the material evidence for the Exodus and conquest (since none exists now) and then went so far as to plant evidence that directly contravenes the account in his own inspired writings, just to throw us off and test our faith in his divine judgement.

Read Redford and Finklestein. The genocides never happened. They are fiction. It's a moot point - or at least it would be if the insane fundie lunatics of the world didn't insist on applying this falsified "history" to our own time.

155

I found this and am in total agreement. Feel free to answer the Questions.

by jw in

jw
friends

regardless of how you feel about jehovah's organization--the true religion, one thing for sure, you will not escape the almighty jehovah's judgement right along with satan the devil and his destructive organization.

how will you save yourself and those who follow you...?

it's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use.

MuadDib

"How will you save yourself and those who follow you...? It's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use. ...saving lives! Are you doing that now? ....Are you offering others hope?....direction? unity? Peace? Security? a futrue?" I am not in need of salvation. Nor are you. Nor is anyone. As for offering others hope - I am committed to the building of a peaceful, secure, and productive future for all of mankind (not just people who believe in the same God as me) based on our own efforts, instead of sitting around letting things go to shit while we wait for the perpetually delayed return of a fictional messiah. Hope for a better and brighter future comes through our own achievements in helping others PRACTICALLY by providing them with education and opportunity, not by deluding them with false promises and empty apocalypticism. Oh, and the citation of Scripture does not lend any merit to any philosophy or belief system whatsoever. Those things stand or fall on their own merits, not through their mere association with a widely and variously interpreted ancient text with little if any rational relevance to the modern era. You are tripping over your own clumsy, bureaucratic belief system and doing nothing more than reminding me why I regret, more and more, having wasted so much time and opportunity on the ignorant beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Get a life.

54

One of the long term effects of growing up a JW...

by Pwned in

jw
friends

for me anyways.. i still have nightmares about demon attacks.

that was the one belief that really had a grip on me growing up.

i was terrified of demons and even thought i was being attacked one night for bringing home a toy with a pagan symbol (ying-yang) on it.

MuadDib

I've never had a demon-related nightmare, but when I was younger I I was terrified of demons. My mother had a close friend, a pioneer sister, who claimed to have had close experiences with demons (the urban legend of being in a school bathroom when a group of "worldly" girls held a seance with a ouija board was one she told) and, being a superstititous young JW, I became quite paranoid about the presence of supernatural entities able to maliciously manipulate our lives. Even the trailers of movies about demonic possession made me extremely uneasy, and I remember one night in ninth grade when merely holding a conversation about the movie The Exorcist had me looking back over my shoulder the entire bike ride home (conducted at around 2 am).

The ironic thing is that now that I'm out I find myself very intrigued by demonology and legends about malifecent spirits from around the world. I'm especially interested in vampire legends, which I think are a sweet aspect of European folklore - there are very rich and imaginative stories about vampires both ancient and modern. When you reduce the notion of demonology to just one more aspect of the dynamic and vibrant spiritual culture universal to just about every human society, it takes the fear out of you. You kind of learn to think of them simply as stories, just like any other fairy tale, and you can take from them whatever themes or lessons you find in them. There's no need to worry about any influence on your thinking, because you decide yourself how what you learn will influence you.

And that's a freedom you could never have in the JWs.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

"I t comes down to methodology and the fact that secular chronology does not account for the seventy years therefore rendering its data useless for such purposes."

What you mean to say, no doubt, is that it comes down to the fact that your methodology hinges entirely on your personal belief system rather than on a sober investigation of what the historical evidence actually reveals. Your idiotic raving about "demonic secular chronology" confirms it: you are no scholar at all, in any sense of the word, but simply another fundamentalist trying (and failing miserably) to give some legitimate facade to his own prejudices. Fortunately, those of us who are scholars, and who cultivate a rational, analytical, and HONEST assessment of reality, can easily see through your ignorant lunacy.

"Scholar" indeed. You don't merit the name you've given yourself. As a real scholar, I demand you change it immediately to something more fitting. "Bullshitter" is probably still up for grabs.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

"Inspiration" shouldn't even enter into the equation. When one side of an argument, instead of presenting sober consideration of facts and evidence, instead resorts to ouright teleology by dismissing rational analysis as spiritually deficient, there is no honest debate being carried on. Your personal belief in the Bible does not make it a valid source of historical information. Sorry. The Bible has no authority on this matter whatsoever, irrespective of who's interpreting the text.

What utter lunacy. Just what you'd expect from a fundie.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

MuadDib

scholar, your entire case rests on the acceptance of the Bible as infallible and directly inspired of God. That is not a sound basis for any evaluation of history. You have yet to produce any of the actual secular evidence that ought to exist to corroborate your claims. If the Biblical description of events was true, it would be directly reflected in the secular evidence. When it is possible through open analytical research to arrive at a completely opposite claim, it is idiotic to fall back on assertions that the Bible should simply be taken at face value because you happen to consider it a sacred text.

You are the worst kind of hypocrite, a disingenuous fool perpetrating lies and misconceptions of history. Historians do not arrive at conclusions through Satanic influence but through honest and open consideration of the evidence and what it tells them. The very fact that you have to resort to such inane tactics as associating historical research with religious apostasy underlines your total ignorance of this issue. Sickening.