Spectrum

Joined

• started 67 topics
• posted 777 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Spectrum

• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  AuldSoul,
  
  Your post is extremely interesting...
  
  1 Corinthians 10:25-33 — Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience; for “to Jehovah belong the earth and that which fills it.” If anyone of the unbelievers invites YOU and YOU wish to go, proceed to eat everything that is set before YOU, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience. But if anyone should say to YOU: “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat on account of the one that disclosed it and on account of conscience. “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other person. For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?
  
  Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory. Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God, even as I am pleasing all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage but that of the many, in order that they might get saved.
  --------------------
  
  I didn't understand, was Paul saying that even if the food is of sacrifice to idols munch down anyway, it's on the conscience of the person offering not your own?
  
  It's clear that Paul doesn't want to offend anybody and because of Christ's grace anything goes as long as love and brotherhood is sustained. Paul is telling us he would eat blood and strangled animals by the looks of it and is probably truning in his grave regarding the JW blood issue.
  
  Have I understood Paul correctly?
  
  PS. I didn't understand the significance of Galatians though.
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  Rebel,
  
  I don't know what Ingenuous is trying to say exactly but he seems to be building a thesis against the JW doctrine around the word 'keep' and the mosiac laws which don't count in this context.
  
  If you look at the letter that was sent to the Gentile christains at verse 29 it says the same thing. Don't use blood.
  
  "29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things."
  
  One thesis you can develop is the following. The people of the time could only have had two uses for blood 1) for food 2) for worshipping pusposes. These can only be what the verses could be referring to so in the literal sense blood transfusion was never included so JW doctrine should not be extended to transfusion. In the spirit or absolute terms of the verses it means do not process blood in any way shape or form.
  
  
  
  
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  rebel,
  
  "Spectrum, the point I failed to clarify earlier is that it is illogical IMO to believe that the Xian God prohibits blood transfusions. This is supported both by what Ingenious said and also by the fact that the suffering and deaths associated with refusal of transfusions is inconsistent with the rest of the Bible's descriptions of God's will."
  
  First who is Xian?
  
  Don't think they were being misled by the GB over the blood issue. I'm going by what I see in Acts 15:20. There is no room for interpretation, Paul was pretty dogmatic about it.
  
  The GB have got nervous and backtract on this policy by finding creative ways of allowing for some leeway this exposes them as not Gods organisation.
  
  Also I believe Paul was making things up as he was going along. His main aim was to create a sect with the Messiah at it's head.
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  Blindersoff,
  
  It may well be an organ but Paul forbade christians to use it in any which way. It's clear in Acts 15:20.
  
  JW are just acting on this belief/command to the death which is admirable.
  
  I get the feeling that Paul was a charlatan so I wouldn't trust him with my puppy nevermind my life but then again am not a practising Christian JW think they are, the GB are a disgrace to their followers.
• 
  27

  Out of the Mouth of Babes...

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so this week on the service meeting there was a part in the km about divine education.

  true to form, it was another anti-college, pro-pioneering propaganda piece put out by our buddies in brooklyn.. in the third paragraph, it babbled forth about how colleges and universities don't teach people to overcome racism, tribalism, and something else.

  (someone please post scan on dec. 2005 km front page).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  I think homeschooling is something borne or influenced on JWs ironically from the wider American culture. The need to circle the wagons to protect the blonde blued eyed roses from the 'savages'. It's just culture driven - Americans being Americans. I don't believe this exist in Europe but don't quote me on that.
  
  Growing up within JWism I had very few social skills, if I had been homeschooled I would have had even less or non.
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  Rebel,
  
  I agree with you totally. I find the God of the bible too cruel for my sensibilities to accept him although Christ does seem to try to redeem him or alter his personality to one of love and kindness. IMO that was 3000 years too late and too many dead people in the mean time.
  
  But the issue here is like you rightly mentioned, loyalty. If one thing pervades all religions, it's unquestionable loyalty to their diety. JWs are no different in this regard. They believe what they ready in the book they choose to worship along with a billion other people.
  
  The bible talks about sacrifice from the first book to the last. Abel sacrificed his best whatever to God but He did not spare him. Thinking about that, it is in fact interesting. Why did Abel get pummelled if he was the righteous one.
  
  Yes the WTBTS tells them not to take blood but it is in the bible in plain English. I can't agree with Ingenuous because that passage is about making it easier for the Gentiles to accept Christ and not about offending the sensibilities of the Christian Jews.
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  Carla,
  
  That was an interesting site. It seems that the hypocrites are the GB. They don't want to lose face or be sued so they are coming up with creative ways of allowing for blood use.
  
  If they are God's organisation why were they not enlightened earlier even before medical science knew about these things? That would have provided evidence to the world that they have something special.
• 
  35

  So were any bible prophecies true?

  by cheeseman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm just wondering to what extent the bible accurately predicted future events?.

  when i was a good little jw, i was constantly reassured that we could have confidence in the paradise because the bible always got it's predictions correct since it was inspired by jah, blah, blah.. does anyone know of a good website which critically examines each bible prophecy one by one?

  what do real bible scholars with no bias make off all these prophecies?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  Thanks googlemagoogle those were great links
• 
  52

  How would JWs run a country if they had one?

  by Spectrum in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anybody imagine what it would be like to live in a country run by jws?

  what would they call it?

  what laws would they have?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  poztate,
  
  
  " I don't think you have to worry about that anymore.I think when they reinvented the generation doctrine in 95 and discarded the "separating work of sheep and goats" at the same time this little "speculation" of theirs bit the dust."
  
  So do they still teach that these are the last days? My JW neice still thinks so, so it would be interesting to know what spin they put on the generation doctrine to still allow for the last days to be nigh?
• 
  32

  Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

  it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

  acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spectrum

  From the JW point of view as 'Christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws. It would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the Catholics.
  
  Acts 15:20 clearly states that the new Christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.
  
  --
  19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21
  --
  My interpretation of it even as an ex JW includes no blood transfusion. It seems quite clear - Don't use blood.
  How many of Christ apostles were martyred including Christ? How many early christians including children were fed to the loins and died for their beliefs?
  
  It seems JWs don't want to apply a different standard to themselves. Surely that's admirable from a belief point of view?
  
  Didn't Daniel end up in the lions den? Weren't his friends thrown in the furnace? If you believe this stuff then you have to apply it. That's what JWs do. At least they aren't hypocrites about this issue.
  
  How many young people take up arms and die with 'honour' for their idiotic politicians?