Posts by FaithfulDoubter

31

Hint of disillusionment among bethelites regarding downsizing?

by watch the tower in

here is an email i got from a jw friend regarding the downsizing.. can you sense the uneasiness in the last part of the message?.

"bros vandewall, jaracz, pierce and weaver gave a talk.

to the bethelites after the watchtower study monday.

FaithfulDoubter

I think all the talk about going to bethel is a regional thing when you're close to Bethel. I've heard about this downsizing before. Really, it's only a matter of time before it's cheaper to do all the printing in some poor country using Bethelites there, and then NY will consist of only a shipping, writing, and movie making place. They could easily run it with far fewer people.

I don't see that this will have any impact on the push against higher education. Maybe in a publishers mind. But, the push against higher education is being reinforced with tales of 'not many college graduates get good jobs' and so on. They're also emphasizing going into pioneer work, so that's probably what they really want. This downsizing is first and foremost, a business decision.

28

The Stake is a more pagan symbol than the Cross

by jwfacts in

i just found an interesting sumerian myth that i wanted to share.

the watchtower claims that the cross was not used by true christians and is of pagan origins.

(watchtower 1989 may 1 p.26 it reveres a pagan symbol masquerading as christian.

FaithfulDoubter

I always found it interesting, that in much of the literature, there is (was) the claim that early christians drew Jesus as being nailed to a stake. Despite years of searching, I've yet to find such a drawing in anything except the societies literature.

20

A kindler, gentler, WTB&TS?

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, i've looked 3 times now through the new study book: what the bible really teaches and i can't find 1 depection of armageddon in it.

(if i'm wrong, someone please point it out!

) is this the beginning of the society trying to create a more loving image?

FaithfulDoubter

Yes, by depection I mean illustration only. It does talk about Armaggedon, in the actual text.

10

The 7 times leading up to 1914...

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, i've talked to a few witnesses about this.

a period when true worship was not really available.

this seems inconsitant to me because: .

FaithfulDoubter

Actually, I was trying to describe JW doctrine to a curious friend, and he kept asking these questions, which made me feel really frustrated for not having asked before. I thought that while JW doctrine might be wrong, it was at least internally consistant, but now I'm starting to doubt even that. It's embarrasing talking to this friend, as I sortof wonder at times, "Did I really believe all this stuff?" and I realize that I did. It's all very confusing. I was hoping that I could give him some good answers, but I guess not.

10

The 7 times leading up to 1914...

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, i've talked to a few witnesses about this.

a period when true worship was not really available.

this seems inconsitant to me because: .

FaithfulDoubter

Ok, still trying to understand here. Did not Jehovah himself not like the idea of a King of Israel, and wasn't the whole King concept done to simply placate them? And further, before there was a King, there was true worship. Why would a King be required to maintain true worship from 607 BCE - 1914 CE?

If you say the Gentile times referred to a reigning King, then ok. But that doesn't mean that true worship could not have happened, as it did. When I ask the organization question to a Witness, they always respond with 'God didn't have an organization during the gentile times', but then when you ask about true worship and the obvious organization of the early christian congregation, I get told it's all about kingship. ArrrggghhhH! Which is it people? Where would the biblical evidence for the Great Apostasy be found? The Jews obviously maintained true worship, if oppresive, until Jesus time. They did not go worship false God's again.

The next thing that bothers me about the whole 7x in Daniel being applied to Isreal, is that the PURPOSE of the 7x passing over was to humiliate the king, and bring him back in line with Jehovah's purpose. Why would Jehovah want to humiliate his own Kings? Where they not already serving his purpose? Further, Babylon did not cease to exist during the time the King was being humiliated...

So in summary questions:
1. Which is it: Jehovah's organization or a kingship that wouldn't exist from 607 BCE - 1914 CE?
2. If organization how does one explain that an organization did exist? If kingship, then wouldn't God's organization still exist anyway as evidenced by the time from 607 BCE - 33 CE?
3. What is the basis for the Great Apostasy?

20

A kindler, gentler, WTB&TS?

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, i've looked 3 times now through the new study book: what the bible really teaches and i can't find 1 depection of armageddon in it.

(if i'm wrong, someone please point it out!

) is this the beginning of the society trying to create a more loving image?

FaithfulDoubter

Ok, I've looked 3 times now through the new study book: What the Bible REALLY teaches and I can't find 1 depection of Armageddon in it. (If I'm wrong, someone please point it out!) Is this the beginning of the Society trying to create a more loving image? Are we finally done with those scary images of Armageddon?

As a child, mostly due to the pictures in the literature, I had nightmeres all the time about dying at armageddon, because I feared I wasn't good enough to please God. Has the Society figured out that these pictures might be turning new ones off now? This is an interesting trend indeed.

10

The 7 times leading up to 1914...

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, i've talked to a few witnesses about this.

a period when true worship was not really available.

this seems inconsitant to me because: .

FaithfulDoubter

Ok, I've talked to a few Witnesses about this. Here's what I don't get: according to the Witnesses the period of time from 607 BCE to 1914 CE was the 'gentile times'. A period when true worship was not really available. This seems inconsitant to me because:

1. The Jewish people DID return to pure worship, and DID rebuild the temple, and DID do God's Will. Of course, they also went overboard, so much so that Jesus had to counsel the religious leaders, and they regected him. Still for a time, true worship was definately there.

2. The time of Jesus ministry around 33 CE, and what happened to the time of the death of the last apostle, is unarguably a period of true worship as well. God's organization existed at that time.

According to the JW's, Jehovah has always dealt with an organization. This says that he even had an organization in those times of darkness between 607 BCE and 1914 CE. But, in the next breath, they'll tell you that the church teachings prior to 1914 (Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox), are all steeped in apostasy. Well, during the gentile times, who was God's orgnaziation? I doubt you'll ever get a JW admit that the Catholic church was, despite it's definate power and so on and so forth.

So, could someone clear things up according to a JW perspective?

1. How do JW's reconcile true worship occuring between 607 BCE and 1914 CE with it being the Gentile Times?

2. Has Jehovah REALLY always dealt with organizations?

3. If affirmative to #2, what organization would one seeking true worship turn to between 200CE - 1914CE?

4. Why was that organization, if existant not used at 1914 to reestablish true worship, instead of a wholy new entity being formed?

11

non sequiter (comic strip)

by darth frosty in

.

this makes me think the writer must be an ex jw.. .

.

FaithfulDoubter

The poster says: The end is still near And criticism of past failures in prophecy just lends aid and comfort to the enemy!

30

Do you have a "Confidante"?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

do you have a person, thats very close to you that you can reveal almost anything, your joys pains, just about anything to?.

or, do you keep all your worries inside and deal with every emotion you have by yourself?.

FaithfulDoubter

I used to tell my mom everything, until she started blabbing it around the entire congregation. It seems to me that JWs can't keep secrets, they always have 1 person they must tell things to, and then that one person has another, and before you know it everyone knows. Like was said, might as well just announce it from the platform.

Now, I keep everything pretty much internalized, 'cept for a few things I've posted on some message boards whilst trying my best to stay anonymous. It's sad I can't share my doubts about religion to the people that matter most, because I know then they'll kick me to the curb.

30

Where does all the money go?

by FaithfulDoubter in

ok, so, i heard recently that the wtb&ts takes in over a billion dollars in the us alone.

that's a lot of cash.

it seems to me, from my limited vantage point, that the society is indeed doing the things it says it's doing with the money - support co's and do's, building kingdom halls, and so on.

FaithfulDoubter

Ok, so, I heard recently that the WTB&TS takes in over a billion dollars in the US alone. That's a lot of cash. And, given how self-sufficient the help is and all, I'm curious if any financial gurus can point out where all the money is going. It seems to me, from my limited vantage point, that the Society is indeed doing the things it says it's doing with the money - support CO's and DO's, building Kingdom Halls, and so on. Is there any evidence of corruption at all?

And to that, I think the answer is no. But if there were, how would we ever know? I'm curious if there has ever been any embezzling or so on and so forth in the society. My current opinion is probably not, that the people involved honestly, and earnestly believe in what they're doing. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be really interested in hearing it.

(note: I'm not a JW apologist, far from it, just seeking some information here)