Posts by whyizit

58

Current & Former Elders- Will You Help Witnesses - Get Out of the Cult ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know ,at first glance it seems like an impossibility .

i really haven't lost my mind here folks.

hear me out on this one.

whyizit

Technically, this question isn't directed to me. (I've never been a JW.) However, I have beent rying to figure out ways to make a difference.

Someone on this forum mentioned HowCultsWork.com, which doesn't mention any cults by name, yet has questions you can ask if you think someone is trying to recruit you in to any group. It gives the tactics, the different types of groups, etc... I have used it to put together a cult awareness workshop. I'm going to get to try it out on college bound teens who will be away from home and loved ones for the first time ever. They are very vulnerable. The "instant friends" cult groups offer are very appealing to the lonely.

Since the info. I'll be using doesn't name any group, they will be able to come to their own conclusions based on the questions they can ask. They can be equipped to be informed consumers, rather than not knowing what to ask or simply taking everything at face value.

Afterall, most cults don't approach someone with a line like this: "Hi! I would like to indoctrinate you into a mind control cult. We will bombard you with love and affection, at first. Then we are going to separate you from anyone who won't join our group. We will then make you fearful of ever leaving. We will control what you think, what you eat, what you wear, how you cut your hair, how you have sex, who your friends are, what medical treatments are acceptable, what information you can read, etc... You will never have to think for yourself again. Infact, we highly discourage it! Doesn't that sound just peachy? And if you ever choose to leave, then we will make sure you lose every friend or relative that you have within our group. And the friends you have outside of our group are going to find you very bizarre, due to the wierd things we have hammered into your brain. You will be fearful of the simplest things. You'll also be hounded by former members of the group. Doesn't that sound great? Come with me now, and we'll get started right away!"

26

Recovery of an Adult Convert (Excluded from Christmas)

by lonelysheep in

jw
friends

on my previous thread, i wrote about reconnecting with my family:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/146360/1.ashx.

too little, too late, i sadly admit.. holidays, specifically christmas, were always special for us since we were able to all be together.

whyizit

Just read your post. Sorry to hear that Christmas wasn't so merry for you.

You know, from a person who has never been a JW, yet has had contact with many people who (like me) have family or friends within the WT, I might be able to offer you a different perspective on this.

Those of us who have been ridiculed by our JW friends and family at every opportunity, especially on the holidays, sometimes decide to forego the speaches about how evil and pagan our celebrations are. We simply decide not to invite or discuss it at all with the JWs in our lives. We get to the point that we don't know if it will offend our JW loved one, so we simply quit asking. We also feel hurt that they think we are having orgies and drunk-fests when we gather for holidays.

If you have just recently exited the JWs, then they may think you are going through a phase. That you may jump back in at any moment, then attack them later for actually including you in what you previously believed was satanic.

Those of us on the outside are so used to being chastised and criticised by JWs, that we get a little head shy. We learn some of the buttons not to push, and so we don't. Holidays are a big button! Wise cracks about the Christmas tree, speaches about heads being cut off on birthdays, ...you know! We learn to avoid the whole deal, just so we can maintain a relationship INSPITE of a loved one's WT involvement.

Maybe your relatives are trying to be respectful. They just don't "get" what is now acceptable to you. Outsiders usually aren't aware of the insider WT doctrines. They may think you have left the religion, but perhaps they think you still believe that holidays are evil. Most people have changed churches at one time or another, which doesn't necessarily mean they have also changed beliefs. Most don't know that JWs are required to believe everything the WT says without question. (That floored me! I didn't realize JWs have no choice. They can't say, "I believe this and this, but I'm not convinced of that one! I'll have to study the Bible for myself and see what I come up with.") I knew that most JWs don't celebrate Christmas, but I didn't think it was required. I was shocked when my Christmas-loving friend all of the sudden was telling me not to get her gifts, and how wrong Christmas is, blah, blah, blah.....I don't mention it anymore. I don't invite her to my parties, because I get quizzed about if it is a "Christmas" party, etc... which leads to her schpeel about how bad it is, so why bother? It just creates a rift between us.

You need to clarify to your loved ones that you see nothing wrong with celebrating holidays, and that you wish to be included from now on. And understand that they may still be a little hesitant to extend the invitations. As much as you were once convinced holidays were wrong, they are that convinced that you may still believe it. And they don't want to be the ones accused of making you fall off the wagon! Inviteyourself for awhile. Once they see you are serious, then you will be included more than you can imagine. These people may not understand what you are going through, but they truly do love you. Invite yourself!

JWs educate their non-JW relatives and friends very well when it comes to these external types of things. You taught them NOT to invite you. They learned the lesson well. Now you need to reteach them to INCLUDE you. Otherwise, they simply won't. Not out of malice, but out of respect. They are trying not to offend you.

39

You just can't reach some people-they just don't get it!

by dawg in

jw
friends

hey guys, album is going great so far... i hope we can finish it in 2008, around may or june.

anyway, i just had a thought which made me stop in for a while.

i was discussing something with a friend the other day, i hadn't even started speaking nor had i brought up the core of my point before he started screaming like some wild manaic; he started making up "straw man" arguments one after the other ad infinum, yelling like a banshee and accusing me of all sorts of thoughts that i don't believe... it was really bazarre.

whyizit

That is so funny! I deal with this crap all the time.

Here's what I do:

I'll ask my JW friend something like: "Hey, I'm having a problem and was hoping you could help me with it. Could you give me a reference from a secular source proving that Jerusalem fell in 607? Since it is a matter of history, and not just religious belief, I figure there's got to be something to substantiate the claim that 607 was the fall of Jerusalem. How did the WT arrive at that date?"

She comes back with about 200 pages of crap and websites that don't answer my questions at all. Then she wants me to ask MR. Knowitall JW. (No thanks.) Then she goes off on Christendom and how they are out to get the JWs, because they don't want Jehovah's kingdom spread, blah, blah, blah.......

"hmmm....Yeah, that's something to think about alright. But could you just answer my original question? Could you just give me ONE or TWO secular resources that support that the historic even of Jerusalem falling was in 607? Then I do the backward count down for her, show her how it isn't coming out to 607, ...."

Then she lets me know that I should be careful believing what the churches say, they're misleading me, I need to look into their history, yadda, yadda, yadda...........

"Gee, that's intersting. I'll have to do that. By the way, how about WT history? Got any good stuff about it? Surely you study lots about that! That might help me a bunch. Oh, and could you send me some historical secular proof supports the fall of Jerusalem happening in 607?"

I just counter the attack by staying on the original question.

You could do something similar: "Yeah, Dad. Maybe I am a fornicator. You haven't met any others in the the KH? Or going door-to-door? Even Jesus talked to fornicators, right? If a suspected fornicator at one of the doors you knock on asked you this same question, how would you answer them? I don't know what fornication has to do with my question. If you don't know the answer, just say so." Then repeat the question.

5

Most avoided Bible verse and biggest misconception of Christians????

by whyizit in

jw
friends

a friend asked me today what i think is possibly the biggest misconception that jws have about christians in general and what bible verse did i think was avoided most by the wts and why.. besides the idea that all churches are after is your money: based on my friendship with a jw, i would say that the wts leads its followers to think your average church spends a huge amount of time and energy trying to discredit the wts.

she seems to think they have little printing rooms with employees, whose sole purpose is to print apostate materials about the wt and anonymously mail it off to jw family and friends.

that they spend a large amount of time in the pulpit warning everyone not to answer a jws knock and to slam the door on them once you know it is a jw.

whyizit

A friend asked me today what I think is possibly the biggest misconception that JWs have about Christians in general and what Bible verse did I think was avoided most by the WTS and why.

Besides the idea that all churches are after is your money: based on my friendship with a JW, I would say that the WTS leads its followers to think your average church spends a huge amount of time and energy trying to discredit the WTS. She seems to think they have little printing rooms with employees, whose sole purpose is to print apostate materials about the WT and anonymously mail it off to JW family and friends. That they spend a large amount of time in the pulpit warning everyone not to answer a JWs knock and to slam the door on them once you know it is a JW. (Where does she get this stuff?? Do they really think that??)

Romans 8:9 is the verse I have heard that many former JWs found quite intriguing. (Not only is there a Spirit of Christ, but that no one can belong to him, unless they have it.)

That was my answer, based on my very limited knowledge of the WTS. I have never been on the inside, so I only know what I have read or heard from those who have.

What about it? What do you think is the most avoided Bible verse within the WTS, and why?

What do you think is the biggest misconception WTS believe about Christians and churches?

19

A question about Nephilim

by whyizit in

jw
friends

it seems like the nephilim are a favorite subject of my jw friend.

it's one of the first things she likes to bring up with people to show how much she "knows" about the bible.

of course, many christians also believe that the nephilim are the result of a sexual union between fallen angels and humans.

whyizit

It seems like the Nephilim are a favorite subject of my JW friend. It's one of the first things she likes to bring up with people to show how much she "knows" about the Bible.

Of course, many Christians also believe that the Nephilim are the result of a sexual union between fallen angels and humans. Many others believe that the Sons of God are followers of God (Adam's descendants), and the Sons of man are those who turned against God (Cain's descendants).

I tend to believe they are giants, yes. That they are offspring of angels- X -humans, no. I really don't care which side of the fence anyone is on when it comes to that issue. There are probably exhaustive arguments for and against how the Nephilim came to be. People could probably split hairs on that all the day long. (And if that's what you want to do, then have at it.) But please answer this for me first!

Here is what I don't understand. Do JWs teach that any of the Nephilim survived the flood? I'm quite certain JWs teach that angels were never allowed to "breed" among humans again after the flood. (Right?) Since Noah and his family were considered righteous enough to be on the ark, I am assuming they didn't have anything to do with the Nephilim. So it wouldn't make sense that anyone in his family would be married to one.

The reason I ask, is because there were Nephilim mentioned in the Bible AFTER the flood (Numbers 13:33). (Yes, even in the NWT.)

I just wondered how a JW explains this? I've thought about asking my friend, but then I figured I would get about 200 pages of WTS literature, and it would get stretched way off topic, etc.... You know the drill.

Got any idea what kind of response I would get if I do decide to ask my JW buddy this question?

19

Your Vote counts here!!!!!

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

<--------- my new avatar!

still a tiger, but the human kind.

jeff .

whyizit

Personally, I like the BIG CAT type of tiger. It makes me think of a strong, yet quiet survivor. But if crossed, watch him roar!

Tiger Woods makes me think of an avid golfer with loads of cash. Which does not take away from his wonderful abilities and his overcoming racial barriers. I love Tiger Woods!

I think the Big Cat gives a greater picture of what a JW goes through when coming out of the WTS. You can physically put him in a cage, but his heart will never truly be tamed by any mortal man.

7

WHAT QUESTIONS SHOULD ONE ASK A JW?

by badboy in

jw
friends

whether one sees them on the streets or the doors.

whyizit

Heard ya'll think yer Bible is easier to understand. Let's have a look see, 'kay?

Turn to Job 6:6 with me. Could you read that outta yer NWT?

Don't know 'bout ya'll, but I think I'll stick to my handy-dandy run of the mill Bible, based on that one!

12

So, I ran into an Elder at supper the other night........

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

**note: i was never baptized, only raised as a jw from birth.

i am therefor not df'd, da'd, or marked.

probably viewed as inactive though.***.

whyizit

I'm not a JW, never have been... But I noticed that in many of their magazines there are little hints that if you can't get around good enough to place literature for the WTS, you could always leave your estate to them! Not word for word, but that's what it's saying in a nutshell.

I actually asked about this once. Pointing out that the elderly probably couldn't get around good enough to "witness", and some are even home bound. I was told by a JW that Jehovah can still use the elderly, because they usually have assets they can leave the WTS. Never under estimate Jehovah!

Maybe your JW "friend" was a little miffed that your Mother didn't leave the WTS her estate. Or at least a chunck of it.

Isn't it ironic how they go on and on about "other churches" hitting you up for money, and yet they do the very same thing? But they just don't seem to see it that way.

56

Pretend I'm Your Shrink, Share Anything with Me- I'll Help if I Can

by flipper in

jw
friends

hello my dear friends.

because of not being allowed to go to college , i ended up not pursuing an interesting career in possible psychiatric profession, which i feel would have brought me lots of fullfillment .i did have a 3.6 gpa in high school and got straight a's in psychology and like subjects.

considering all the stress everybody has been under lately , in a serious or joking manner i would like to offer my humble 48 years of crazy -a$$ experiences to you if you want to talk about anything.

whyizit

Dear Mr. Flipper,

I have never been a JW, but have a friend who is. Hasn't taken the big baptismal dive, but is heading that direction.

We've played Bible ping-pong, discussed the fall of Jerusalem, etc..... numerous subjects. Sometimes it seems it is soaking in, other times I wonder why I bother. I know it takes time. I never say bad things about the WT. Never argue or raise my voice.

One of the things that irritates me most, is when this friend starts bad-mouthing "all those other churches and religions". Much of the time it is for the same things the WT is guilty of. Yet, they find it rude and mean when people say anything negative about the WT! How would you point out this double-standard when it comes in to play? I'd like to know how to deal with it in a kind, yet firm manner.

Thanks for your help.

Whyizit

12

It may not make any difference, but if it did,....what would you suggest?

by whyizit in

jw
friends

my jw friend and i had a conversation.. it seems she received an anonymous letter from an "apostate" person.

explaining why they left the wts.. of course, this person must have left the jws to pursue a deviate lifestyle.

since there weren't a bunch of sited bible verses to substantiate her claims, my jw friend is trying to dismiss it all as a sour person who thinks they missed having a childhood, due to over-zealous jw parents who were supposedly "too strict".. she comented that had this person given good biblical reasons as to why she left, and supported those reasons biblically--then she might be more inclined to take the letter seriously.. now, i know this is a bunch of bs.

whyizit

On The Way Out:

Please give me specifics!

I've had several conversations which really seemed to make a dent in the whole mess. She's still convinced that the Bible supports the WTS views, however. I know the way out is a long one. Easier to get the gal out of the WT, than getting the WT out of the gal.

But I think that is where we're at. I've been able to point out a few WT flaws, such as the teaching that Christ returned in 1874. That came out of the 5th Chapter of the Proclaimer's book.....that SHE sent me!

If that were true THEN, why isn't it NOW? When was this changed? By whom was it changed? Of course, I got no answer, but the point was made.

NOw, I am really searching for Biblical evidence that may actually make sense to her, even though she is still in a semi-cultic fog. An "AH-HA!" moment is what I am hoping for. Got one? PM me, even! I need all the help I can get!

Thanks!