Just sort of curious about this, I know it has probably been done a gazillion times but let me do it again. :)
1.Do you believe in a personal God who takes interest in you as an individual?
2.Do you believe that the Bible was written by God?
3.Do you believe the Bible is error free and is always harmonious?
4.Why do you believe these things?
Morocco
JoinedPosts by Morocco
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Belief Poll : Please Indulge Me
by Morocco injust sort of curious about this, i know it has probably been done a gazillion times but let me do it again.
1.do you believe in a personal god who takes interest in you as an individual?
2.do you believe that the bible was written by god?
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Morocco
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Who is Jesus
by soulfinder inhey everyone, i'm new here and i would really like to discuss your views on who jesus is.. please feel free to list any scripture, and i will do the same.. here are a few scriptures that may help:.
1. in the book of isaiah 7:14 jehovah prophesied that there would be a child born of a virgin, and that his name would be immanuel, which means god with us.. 14 therefore the lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him immanuel (which means god with us).. 2. in the book of john, jesus also encourages us to pray to him by saying "if you ask anything in my name, i will do it.".
john 14:14. if you askanything in my name, i will do it.. 3. here are a few instances of people worshipping jesus:.
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Morocco
By the way, welcome to the board soulfinder. I don’t know if part of this last post was directed at my comments or not, but I will reply anyways. First I want to say that it’s pretty easy to cause injury when debating religion as it is an emotionally charged topic, so I apologize in advance for myself. I can come across rude sometimes but I surely don’t mean it on a personal level.
Your post attempts to justify the abuse of human rights that the Old Testament allows, but look closely at the protective law portion you quoted. It explicitly states that while a person is a slave and they fall in love, the only way to keep that mate is if they remain a slave forever. They can not take that wife/husband/lover or any offspring thereof into freedom with them. Are the Laws of Jehovah really, honestly, this two-faced? How cruel. You must remain in slavery, for the rest of your life, to keep these people you love. Talk about a carrot on a stick. Would God really dangle such an intimate and hurtful thing in front of your face until you die?
If you honestly look at the psychology behind it you will see that this is a very powerful leverage device that can be used to bypass other portions of the law that says you must set slaves free after so many years (seven I believe). It hurts a nation, economically, to loose slaves in those times. Slaves made up an enormous part of the kingdom’s life and strength. A king would always be in the market for new slaves because at intervals he loses them. How would a king gain slaves for life? Well, a king might use this portion of the law; he might use the loved ones, the children, the husbands and wives as legal leverage to build a permanent slave base. Sure, the slave consented, he knew the rules so it’s okay right? I disagree, and I hope that any moral person would too. This very example shows the underhanded, abusive, and evasive aspects found in the bible. And again, Jesus was a teacher of the Law, and supposedly the ultimate fulfillment of it, which means that he had no qualms with the contents. I can’t accept that God would provide laws regulating slavery (laws that are devious at that) only to later say that all men are equal and free in Christ – there is no slave, no gentile or Jew, no man or woman. Does God teach equality, or does he teach inequality?
Even if this thread is dead I’ve enjoyed it and I welcome more debate. -
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Is religion dangerous and do we really NEED saving?
by Morocco inim not trying to sound haughty or god-hating, i dont even know if i believe what i wrote but tell me what you guys think about this: how are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson?
how can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them?
the harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it.
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Morocco
yes that is what my therapist says a lot... jk :)
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Is religion dangerous and do we really NEED saving?
by Morocco inim not trying to sound haughty or god-hating, i dont even know if i believe what i wrote but tell me what you guys think about this: how are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson?
how can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them?
the harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it.
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Morocco
I’m not trying to sound haughty or God-hating, I don’t even know if I believe what I wrote – But tell me what you guys think about this: How are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson? How can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them? The harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it. When we are deceived we can rationalize our beliefs in God and higher powers and portray them in any way we choose in order to comfort or blame ourselves and others. The actual attainment of the greater good is not the process of learning or being tricked to evil but the aftermath, the contrast at the end and how we use it. It is not our fault we are ignorant, but it is our fault if we remain that way. For mankind to evolve into what we desire we must have the resources to evaporate what makes us dissatisfied. The resources being knowledge of evil or bad things. Humans need evil, lies, and deception -- not to blame and cast as our opposition and enemy until death -- but as a tool to refine ourselves and to grow. You may fool me once, shame on you. You may fool me twice, shame on me. It is our own outlook and choice to castrate and curse or to embrace and change the evils into lessons from which a greater good may come. Is there really a better way? Is salvation from darkness a way to teach us to become independent creatures?
Sacrifice must be made if we wish to attain something more than the state we are in. Everyone knows that getting something takes work and sacrifice. The sacrifice is the movement itself through the perils in which we suffer to gain the prize of knowledge at the end. Blood must be let spilt for the greater good and the acquisition of knowledge that leads to surpassing any intellectual, emotional, or moral darkness we may have. To overcome evil we must experience it for however long it takes. People say that history repeats itself and the world seems to be controlled by “the evils” that plague mankind. People say there will always be deception and killing until some device saves us from it; THIS IS OUR DEFEAT because we believe it and objectify evil as not of ourselves. It’s otherworldly, not human. On all levels we create a creature, thought, idea, or concept that is the epitome of wrongness and thus never take the responsibility into our own hands. What we have done wasn’t done by us, it was the Devil. By shouldering the load of evil onto another person, or an idea, or groups thereof we will ALWAYS BE WAITING for the day that someone saves us from it because it does not belong to us. We have become stagnant in growth in the idea that we are not responsible, or that someone or something else must take the blame. Let me repeat. By excusing ourselves from sin by means of Satan we can not see the fault in ourselves and thus can not change it.
The question remains: how much sacrifice must we ourselves choose to make before we wrap our hands around the idea at the end? How many lives are we willing to give before we grow and no longer need deception and violence? The lesson is still being learned, and has been repeated to us time and again with history books full of fighting, hatred, and ignorance. This is the light in which we see, not only our faults, but also our potential. If we can control ourselves to doom, we can control ourselves to betterment. No one is forced to take any action. We make CHOICES and we live by them. EVERY INDIVIDUAL is responsible for what mankind has been and will become. We must first stop shifting the blame to the Devil, communism, drugs, or criminals and swiftly realize that the evils, lies, deception, abhorrent violence and all such things are of our OWN making and are our own responsibility. Only then will we ever have the hope of possessing the desire to change. Is this fancy utopian world really possible or just a daydream?
Maybe, perhaps, there is no salvation from evil but by our own making. And maybe this is God’s way (if he exists). This taking of responsibility into our own hands does not imply a denial of these greater powers or redemption; it only implies that we took, perhaps in vein, the responsibility for our actions? And isn’t an attempt to help, even if unfulfilled, more respectable than blaming something else and sitting idly by? While we wait for Jesus to whisk us away what are we really doing. Would He accuse us of not trying? Will we have anything good to say of ourselves if we should ever really stand before the Court of God? Am I full of crap and on the brink of becoming one of those crazy nut-job prophets? Eh, who knows. -
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Why be obedient to god?
by nicolaou inif a creator god is real and he is the source of life well then i would certainly acknowledge that and give him thanks for my existence and for the universe i live in.
but obedience?.
my mum and dad gave me life, ensured my education, looked after my health and wellbeing, loved me, taught me the value of kindness and friendships and so much more.
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Morocco
Good topic. If God were to let me know he existed I might obey him. Ask any Christian if they believe in destiny or free will and they will give you a little bit of both. Yay for free will because God gives us choices – but, er, everything happens for a reason – God took a loved one from me – it’s all part of His plan. No body knows, not even the bible. The bible teaches both indirectly. You ask why God makes such demands, “obey me or die!” Those aren’t God’s words, those are the words of men using the idea of God to control their nations. What they secretly mean is “obey the God I created, who controls you through me, or else I’ll kill you and said God told me to.” Reference any part of the Old Testament you want. I’m not obeying anyone who claims to speak for a creature that won’t speak for itself. Until God proves he is there I will enjoy life for what it is.
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What is the deal with Moses? A rant on absurdity in the Bible.
by Morocco inthe other day i was reading about moses and i came to the very popular part of the golden calf.
but now, with a little maturity and freedom from the clutches of witness thought i can see some terrible problems with the bible.
in the beginning of exodus 32 god is talking to moses and sees that the israelites have made a calf out of gold and they are using it as their god.
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Morocco
justahuman24: I now see what you're saying. Yeah, it didn't originate with Aaron, but he sure as shoot did all the footwork and went that extra mile for the people. I'm sure it was peer pressure that he caved under, but my point is he wasn't punished. The Bible is unfair on that account. Good point about the ten commandments though. Moving on to that other subject; someone explain to me why it was so bad to take a census? I haven't read this account and you've all got me interested in it.
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What is the deal with Moses? A rant on absurdity in the Bible.
by Morocco inthe other day i was reading about moses and i came to the very popular part of the golden calf.
but now, with a little maturity and freedom from the clutches of witness thought i can see some terrible problems with the bible.
in the beginning of exodus 32 god is talking to moses and sees that the israelites have made a calf out of gold and they are using it as their god.
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Morocco
sorry if i sound mean :\
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What is the deal with Moses? A rant on absurdity in the Bible.
by Morocco inthe other day i was reading about moses and i came to the very popular part of the golden calf.
but now, with a little maturity and freedom from the clutches of witness thought i can see some terrible problems with the bible.
in the beginning of exodus 32 god is talking to moses and sees that the israelites have made a calf out of gold and they are using it as their god.
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Morocco
Justahuman24: First, beginning in Ex. 32:2-5, it says that “2 Aaron answered them, "Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me." 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, "These are your gods, [b] O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt." 5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." So It was Aaron's idea where to get the materials, it was Aaron who “made it into an idol”, and it was Aaron who even built an alter. It was Aaron's idea. You do however make a good point about the Levites, but that further proves my point; genocide is a regular thing with God, or Moses, or whoever says they speak for God. Why weren't the Levites punished? Heck, why would ANY leader punish that kind of loyalty to HIMSELF – that's why the Levites were blessed by the Lord (Moses) because they showed loyalty to Moses above their own family. Kill your family with swords because God told me to tell you. That's absurd.
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Who is Jesus
by soulfinder inhey everyone, i'm new here and i would really like to discuss your views on who jesus is.. please feel free to list any scripture, and i will do the same.. here are a few scriptures that may help:.
1. in the book of isaiah 7:14 jehovah prophesied that there would be a child born of a virgin, and that his name would be immanuel, which means god with us.. 14 therefore the lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him immanuel (which means god with us).. 2. in the book of john, jesus also encourages us to pray to him by saying "if you ask anything in my name, i will do it.".
john 14:14. if you askanything in my name, i will do it.. 3. here are a few instances of people worshipping jesus:.
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Morocco
LittleToe: No offense, and none taken but I'm not saying Jesus was a slave trader. But Jesus never said it was wrong to beat slaves or suppress women. In fact some of Jesus own followers kept it going (1 Cor. 14:34) “women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. “ It goes without saying that what the Law allows isn't mandatory to perform. But why allow it? So adultery is a no-no, but I can own slaves AND beat them if I choose? I thought God hated violence -- oh, but not with slaves. I merely pointed out that it was okay, in their time, to perform acts atrocious by todays standards. It is the laws of God that are disingenuous. The “Laws” men have put in God's mouth.
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Who is Jesus
by soulfinder inhey everyone, i'm new here and i would really like to discuss your views on who jesus is.. please feel free to list any scripture, and i will do the same.. here are a few scriptures that may help:.
1. in the book of isaiah 7:14 jehovah prophesied that there would be a child born of a virgin, and that his name would be immanuel, which means god with us.. 14 therefore the lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him immanuel (which means god with us).. 2. in the book of john, jesus also encourages us to pray to him by saying "if you ask anything in my name, i will do it.".
john 14:14. if you askanything in my name, i will do it.. 3. here are a few instances of people worshipping jesus:.
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Morocco
Jesus was a Jew. Jesus practiced the Law, he was in the same game as the Pharisees and Sadducees (the people he condemned so many times) he also "fulfilled" the Law. Point being: Jesus agreed with everything the Law stood for and said -- down to the letter. Jesus condoned the Law and upheld it. Did you know that in the Mosaic Law that slavery was okay? You could beat a slave to unconsciousness, so long as he/she didn't die, and you would go unpunished because the slave is your property. (Ex. 21:20&21) Women had no rights, there were rules on how you should sell your daughters as sexual slaves. Jesus stood for those things according to the bible writers. (Ex. 21:2-7) The Law, in the scriptures just referenced, also allowed a slave owner to use the slaves marriage mate and children as leverage for his enslavement for life. If the slave fell in love with someone and wanted to remain in love, the Law states that they must remain a slave to keep that love. Greed and trickery my friends. Jesus was part of this.