Posts by Morocco

3

Oops! An Atheistic Belief in Witness Doctrine?

by Morocco in

i was reading the god delusion by richard dawkins.

in chapter one he states: .

an atheist in this sense of philosophical naturalist is somebody who .

Morocco

I was reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. In chapter one he states:

“An atheist in this sense of philosophical naturalist is somebody who
believes there is nothing beyond the natural, physical world, no
supernatural creative intelligence lurking behind the observable
universe, no soul that outlasts the body and no miracles - except in
the sense of natural phenomena that we don't yet understand.”

Isn’t that exactly what the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach about the human soul? That there is no soul after death – that’s it, you’re dead, nothing more. Uh oh. Are they sharing beliefs with the Devil?! *gasp*

16

Socially Stunted?...you betcha.

by Lumptard in

jw
friends

my apologies if this has been done to death, but i was just curious how many of you feel that you have been socially crippled as a result of your association with the jws?

granted, this probably affects people who were raised as jws more than those who chose for themselves, but i just wanted to see if anyone else has had the same experience...also, how did you work through it if you were able to?

Morocco

I almost did a post like this the other day, but didn’t for some reason. I was severely stunted when I came out of the clutches of the Tower, but over time I’ve learned to almost completely erase those effects. I can see now how far behind my sister and mother are, and I can see the direct correlation between their social/emotional retardation and religion. Most religions, if not all, (and especially the Witnesses) foster hatred, circular logic, paranoia, bad social skills, and the one that has scarred me for life : co-dependant thought. I never once learned to trust in myself because I always credited God, Jesus, fairies, or the GB for whatever insight or wisdom I acquired. I never once knew what it was like to have faith in ME, that I’m not stupid, that I’m not “misguided”. It’s only now, late in my twenties, that I am learning that I CAN do complicated things, and they ARE worth doing. They kept my mind and independence for years, but now that I have it I’d rather die than give it up. Sorry, I had to spill my guts for a second.

5

Would you risk your life?

by pratt1 in

innyc yesterday a man saved a strangers lfe by jumping on the train tracks and rolling both himself and the injured man under a small crawl space in the tracks.

fortunately both escaped harm but at least 2 train cars had rolled over them.. the man had fell on to the tracks after suffering a seizure.. what a heroic act of kindness.. would you have risked your life to save a stranger?.

is your answer the same answer you would have given if you were still in the borg?.

Morocco

absolutely i would, in or outside any mind controlling organization

54

How do I have everlasting life?

by soulfinder in

here is a scripture that explains just that.. john 5:39-40.

39you are searching the scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me.. 40and yet you do not want to come to me that you may have life.. jesus clearly explains that it is not through the scriptures that we have everlasting life.

it is only by going to him..

Morocco

I just wanted to comment on something real quick. You said that Jesus changes your heart and can make it really easy for you to behave in a positive manner. Then you gave a history of once being a drug abusing “metalhead”. How can you be so sure that it was Jesus who changed you? If you had led an alternate life, where you never abused drugs, how do you know that it would be so easy to NOT do drugs? It is the very fact that you did drugs that allowed you to see if you truly wanted them, not Jesus changing your heart. You say that you prayed for a bible as a sign. Do you know how common it is for people to have bibles in prison? Thats like asking the Lord for a wreck at the Talladega speedway as a sign. It's all so debatable and the evidence is sketchy. How can you base your belief in something on such fleeting details? Is it because you “feel it”? Religious experiences, OBEs and the like, can be replicated in laboratories. Hearing voices and seeing things isn't proof – are your senses the only ones on the planet that can't be fooled?

You asked how many people believe in Jesus. Just because the whole world believes in something doesn't make it real. Remember, the bible says Satan is the God of this world, so by that logic he will be the majority that rules. So, by that logic, the belief in Jesus should be a minority for it to be a good thing. It also says the will be constantly turning himself into an angel of light, making himself seem good. By that logic, you might want to double check everything that appears like an “angel of light”. Jesus, Jehovah, the Bible... it could ALL be under his control.

I think its great you cleaned up your life. There wasn't a better choice. But give yourself the credit because YOU experienced it. Jesus didn't change you... you changed yourself. Job well done from the experience you had and the life you wanted.

4

Satan's Snares ?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

have you ever noticed that whenever a person gets into trouble with, and or questions the watchtower society.

one of their favorite responses is:" you have falling victim to satan's snares".

they must have satan's whole bag of tricks and snares on file somewhere at the watchtower society.

Morocco

It's an age old trick that religious authority figures have been using since the dawn of man.

“Bad things are out to get you, do what I say and with my special knowledge you will be okay”

It's always about special knowledge, even sales people sell you on all the features of something you didn't know it had! Look at all it can do! Satan is especially delicious when it comes to being bad, so you need to trust in people who have special knowledge. Gag.

Without Satan the Churches of Religion have no authority, he is their best friend. Scaring people with Satan or Hellfire works pretty good when you understand how it operates. When it comes down to it religion wants full control of your mind and it will use ANY tactic to get it.

31

Belief Poll : Please Indulge Me

by Morocco in

jw
friends

just sort of curious about this, i know it has probably been done a gazillion times but let me do it again.

1.do you believe in a personal god who takes interest in you as an individual?

2.do you believe that the bible was written by god?

Morocco

Just sort of curious about this, I know it has probably been done a gazillion times but let me do it again. :)

1.Do you believe in a personal God who takes interest in you as an individual?

2.Do you believe that the Bible was written by God?

3.Do you believe the Bible is error free and is always harmonious?

4.Why do you believe these things?

22

Who is Jesus

by soulfinder in

hey everyone, i'm new here and i would really like to discuss your views on who jesus is.. please feel free to list any scripture, and i will do the same.. here are a few scriptures that may help:.

1. in the book of isaiah 7:14 jehovah prophesied that there would be a child born of a virgin, and that his name would be immanuel, which means god with us.. 14 therefore the lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him immanuel (which means god with us).. 2. in the book of john, jesus also encourages us to pray to him by saying "if you ask anything in my name, i will do it.".

john 14:14. if you askanything in my name, i will do it.. 3. here are a few instances of people worshipping jesus:.

Morocco

By the way, welcome to the board soulfinder. I don’t know if part of this last post was directed at my comments or not, but I will reply anyways. First I want to say that it’s pretty easy to cause injury when debating religion as it is an emotionally charged topic, so I apologize in advance for myself. I can come across rude sometimes but I surely don’t mean it on a personal level.

Your post attempts to justify the abuse of human rights that the Old Testament allows, but look closely at the protective law portion you quoted. It explicitly states that while a person is a slave and they fall in love, the only way to keep that mate is if they remain a slave forever. They can not take that wife/husband/lover or any offspring thereof into freedom with them. Are the Laws of Jehovah really, honestly, this two-faced? How cruel. You must remain in slavery, for the rest of your life, to keep these people you love. Talk about a carrot on a stick. Would God really dangle such an intimate and hurtful thing in front of your face until you die?

If you honestly look at the psychology behind it you will see that this is a very powerful leverage device that can be used to bypass other portions of the law that says you must set slaves free after so many years (seven I believe). It hurts a nation, economically, to loose slaves in those times. Slaves made up an enormous part of the kingdom’s life and strength. A king would always be in the market for new slaves because at intervals he loses them. How would a king gain slaves for life? Well, a king might use this portion of the law; he might use the loved ones, the children, the husbands and wives as legal leverage to build a permanent slave base. Sure, the slave consented, he knew the rules so it’s okay right? I disagree, and I hope that any moral person would too. This very example shows the underhanded, abusive, and evasive aspects found in the bible. And again, Jesus was a teacher of the Law, and supposedly the ultimate fulfillment of it, which means that he had no qualms with the contents. I can’t accept that God would provide laws regulating slavery (laws that are devious at that) only to later say that all men are equal and free in Christ – there is no slave, no gentile or Jew, no man or woman. Does God teach equality, or does he teach inequality?

Even if this thread is dead I’ve enjoyed it and I welcome more debate.

10

Is religion dangerous and do we really NEED saving?

by Morocco in

im not trying to sound haughty or god-hating, i dont even know if i believe what i wrote but tell me what you guys think about this: how are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson?

how can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them?

the harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it.

Morocco

yes that is what my therapist says a lot... jk :)

10

Is religion dangerous and do we really NEED saving?

by Morocco in

im not trying to sound haughty or god-hating, i dont even know if i believe what i wrote but tell me what you guys think about this: how are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson?

how can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them?

the harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it.

Morocco

I’m not trying to sound haughty or God-hating, I don’t even know if I believe what I wrote – But tell me what you guys think about this: How are we, as individuals and a species, to grow into what we want to become unless we are first burned by the fires of lesson? How can we see our faults unless first we experience them, then, by contrast no longer live by them? The harsh reality is that in order to overcome ignorance we must be first fooled by it so that we may be intimate with it. When we are deceived we can rationalize our beliefs in God and higher powers and portray them in any way we choose in order to comfort or blame ourselves and others. The actual attainment of the greater good is not the process of learning or being tricked to evil but the aftermath, the contrast at the end and how we use it. It is not our fault we are ignorant, but it is our fault if we remain that way. For mankind to evolve into what we desire we must have the resources to evaporate what makes us dissatisfied. The resources being knowledge of evil or bad things. Humans need evil, lies, and deception -- not to blame and cast as our opposition and enemy until death -- but as a tool to refine ourselves and to grow. You may fool me once, shame on you. You may fool me twice, shame on me. It is our own outlook and choice to castrate and curse or to embrace and change the evils into lessons from which a greater good may come. Is there really a better way? Is salvation from darkness a way to teach us to become independent creatures?

Sacrifice must be made if we wish to attain something more than the state we are in. Everyone knows that getting something takes work and sacrifice. The sacrifice is the movement itself through the perils in which we suffer to gain the prize of knowledge at the end. Blood must be let spilt for the greater good and the acquisition of knowledge that leads to surpassing any intellectual, emotional, or moral darkness we may have. To overcome evil we must experience it for however long it takes. People say that history repeats itself and the world seems to be controlled by “the evils” that plague mankind. People say there will always be deception and killing until some device saves us from it; THIS IS OUR DEFEAT because we believe it and objectify evil as not of ourselves. It’s otherworldly, not human. On all levels we create a creature, thought, idea, or concept that is the epitome of wrongness and thus never take the responsibility into our own hands. What we have done wasn’t done by us, it was the Devil. By shouldering the load of evil onto another person, or an idea, or groups thereof we will ALWAYS BE WAITING for the day that someone saves us from it because it does not belong to us. We have become stagnant in growth in the idea that we are not responsible, or that someone or something else must take the blame. Let me repeat. By excusing ourselves from sin by means of Satan we can not see the fault in ourselves and thus can not change it.

The question remains: how much sacrifice must we ourselves choose to make before we wrap our hands around the idea at the end? How many lives are we willing to give before we grow and no longer need deception and violence? The lesson is still being learned, and has been repeated to us time and again with history books full of fighting, hatred, and ignorance. This is the light in which we see, not only our faults, but also our potential. If we can control ourselves to doom, we can control ourselves to betterment. No one is forced to take any action. We make CHOICES and we live by them. EVERY INDIVIDUAL is responsible for what mankind has been and will become. We must first stop shifting the blame to the Devil, communism, drugs, or criminals and swiftly realize that the evils, lies, deception, abhorrent violence and all such things are of our OWN making and are our own responsibility. Only then will we ever have the hope of possessing the desire to change. Is this fancy utopian world really possible or just a daydream?

Maybe, perhaps, there is no salvation from evil but by our own making. And maybe this is God’s way (if he exists). This taking of responsibility into our own hands does not imply a denial of these greater powers or redemption; it only implies that we took, perhaps in vein, the responsibility for our actions? And isn’t an attempt to help, even if unfulfilled, more respectable than blaming something else and sitting idly by? While we wait for Jesus to whisk us away what are we really doing. Would He accuse us of not trying? Will we have anything good to say of ourselves if we should ever really stand before the Court of God? Am I full of crap and on the brink of becoming one of those crazy nut-job prophets? Eh, who knows.

42

Why be obedient to god?

by nicolaou in

if a creator god is real and he is the source of life well then i would certainly acknowledge that and give him thanks for my existence and for the universe i live in.

but obedience?.

my mum and dad gave me life, ensured my education, looked after my health and wellbeing, loved me, taught me the value of kindness and friendships and so much more.

Morocco

Good topic. If God were to let me know he existed I might obey him. Ask any Christian if they believe in destiny or free will and they will give you a little bit of both. Yay for free will because God gives us choices – but, er, everything happens for a reason – God took a loved one from me – it’s all part of His plan. No body knows, not even the bible. The bible teaches both indirectly. You ask why God makes such demands, “obey me or die!” Those aren’t God’s words, those are the words of men using the idea of God to control their nations. What they secretly mean is “obey the God I created, who controls you through me, or else I’ll kill you and said God told me to.” Reference any part of the Old Testament you want. I’m not obeying anyone who claims to speak for a creature that won’t speak for itself. Until God proves he is there I will enjoy life for what it is.