Nothing new? Doesn't surprise me! Most doctrinal changes come in the "Questions from Readers" (or is that "Questions TO Readers"). Anyway, thanks for your write-up!
cyberguy
JoinedPosts by cyberguy
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31
Supplementary meeting: synopsis
by Moxy inthe meetings were held in michigan (bibleexaminer), long island (nytelecom), san diego (elder families only), and here in toronto.. the stadium we used is the same we normally use for district conventions.
unlike the dc tho, which is spread over 2 weekends at the stadium, it was packed absolutely full.
it was very hard to find seats anywhere, just a few singles here and there and lots standing in the halls.
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2
Isaiah 4:2, 607, and 70 years of desolation
by cyberguy inisaiah's prophecy--light for all mankind, vol.
i (new watchtower publication), makes a strange comment regarding isaiah 4:2:.
"in that day what jehovah makes sprout will come to be for decoration and for glory, and the fruitage of the land will be something to be proud of and something beautiful for those of israel who have escaped.".
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cyberguy
Isaiah's Prophecy--Light for All Mankind, Vol. I (new Watchtower publication), makes a strange comment regarding Isaiah 4:2:
"In that day what Jehovah makes sprout will come to be for decoration and for glory, and the fruitage of the land will be something to be proud of and something beautiful for those of Israel who have escaped."
On page 65, par. 8, the book explains that "those of Israel who have escaped" refers to those who escaped Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C.E. (the Society's date for this event), and after a Babylonian captivity lasting 70 years (the Society's interpretation, but has no support from scholars), allowed to return to Jerusalem.
Well, let's do some simple math. Suppose the average age of such "escaped ones" was 20 years. Then these people would be 90 years old (20 + 70 years of captivity)! How many 90-year-olds do you think would be alive to return to Jerusalem after spending 70 years in captivity?
To reconcile such an obvious problem, they provide an extensive footnote that does some fancy footwork to explain it! It states: "the escaped ones" included some who had been born in exile. These could be considered to have "escaped," since they would never have been born if their ancestors had not survived the destruction -- Ezra 9:13-15; compare Hebrews 7:9, 10.
On the other hand, consider if the captivity were about 19/20 years shorter, if the 70 years of servitude started at the beginning of Babylon's worldly dominion after overthrowing Assyria (609-539 = 70 years), according to Biblical chronologists (see Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, revised 1998 edition, Hendrickson Publishers, HndBibChron p. 252, sect. 430, p. 255, sect 434). Now these "captive ones" would be around 70 years old. And if they were in the their early teens, they'd be about 63-65 years old, still within the realm of possibilities of being able to return to their homeland.
Of course, we're not likely to see the Watchtower change its view anytime soon, due to the 607 date and 70 years being important numbers in support of their 1914 doctrine. However, as you can see from this example, they have to force their flocks to be mental contortionists to reconcile a number of biblical passages that would otherwise be easy to explain, given an alternate chronology.
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I found this on the WTS website concerning the UN
by Leander inthis is actually posted under the first massive thread about the society and un, but i thought maybe it should have a post dedicated to this shocking softening of opinion.. my original post was as follows:.
i just shared the information with my wife about the society and the un.
she then replied that this situation was no different than paul making use of the goverment to further the preaching work.
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cyberguy
This was a very thoughtful reply. However, I'd recommend that you try and keep you marriage together as best you can. I'm sure you love your wife; don't ruin this relationship; it's worth maintaining almost at any cost! She is simply indoctrinated with the Society's teachings that defy "all the laws of gravity." Imagine telling a child that there truly isn't a Santa Claus when s/he's been told again and again that this figurative character brings gifts down the chimney every year to the Christmas tree. Well, this isn't far afield from the fictional teachings of the "faithful and discrete slave."
However, you can discreetly point out discrepancies as you see them. You might try posing these anomalies in the form of questions. They raise doubt, but don't sound as dogmatic as resolute statements.
Just a few suggestions, my brother in faith… Be aware, that there are quite a number of other x/witnesses that feel that same as you. Don' t give up on the Bible or Jehovah God.
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19
letter to British Bethal
by sleepy ini hope to send this letter today although i must seriously consider the consequences if i do.. please let me know if i got the ngo info right.. dear brothers,.
i am writing on two matters of major concern to me.. firstly recently i have become aware of the fact that the watchtower society of jehovahs witnesses in new york is associated as an ngo (non governmental organisation) with the department of public information of the united nations organisation.. at first i was very skeptical of the idea , but when i checked it out on the uns web site i found that jehovahs witnesses were indeed listed in partnership with the un.. this is puzzling to me as by belief has been that the un was taught by the faithful and discreet slave to be part of satans political system of things.. here are some quotes from watchtower literature.. *** re 248 34 an awesome mystery solved ***.
the un is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of gods messianic kingdom by his prince of peace, jesus christto whose princely rule there will be no end.. .
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cyberguy
sleepy!
To whom are you addressing this letter? Branch office? Congregation elders? If the branch office (especially non-USA), they'll just send a canned letter (actually, you need to address your letter to Writing Dept. in Brooklyn--preferably to someone you know in Writing--I'll can supply a few names if you want). If it gets processed by the Service Department, then there's absolutely no attempt at an honest reply! Be warned, Bethel uses a worldwide, canned-letter program to generate standard responses (I know the brother who wrote the program). However, if your letter is addressed to your congregation elders, it might be viewed with mild concern, but on the other hand, they might think you're an apostate!
If you're trying to change the views of the many, then writing the Society's "clergy" will not get you there!
If you insist on sending this letter, I'd tame it down a little more! Put everything in the form of a question. I know that the Society doesn't do this, being very dogmatic down to the smallest trivial thing! However, they expect the "laity" (us) to respond in a very timid, fearful manner, when questioning them!
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Where Was The Governing Body?
by stevieb1 inwhere was the governing body (per the wt understanding of acts).
1. after the destruction of jerusalem in 70ce?.
2. when john was penning revelation from patmos?.
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cyberguy
This question is easily answered: Where does the expression "Governing Body" originate from? Is it in the Bible?
JW's are trained to argue with those who believe in the "trinity" and "rapture," that since these expressions aren't in the Bible, they shouldn't be believed! Well, how about "Governing Body?"
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Request for Oct 1, 1995 WT Mag on UN
by hawkaw indungbeetle provided this comment in another post:.
in 1995, the jehovahs witnesses stated that they viewed the united nations the same as any other governmental body of the world.
(wt 10/1/95).
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cyberguy
*** w95 10/1 5-7 A World Without War-When? ***
A World Without War—When?
THE Charter of the United Nations went into effect on October 24, 1945. It is the most comprehensive strategy for world peace ever to be designed by humans. With its original 51 member States, the United Nations became the largest international organization in the history of the world. Also, for the first time ever, an international organization would have access to an army to enforce peace and security and bring about a world without war.
Today, with 185 member States, the United Nations is stronger than ever. Why, then, has the most powerful international organization in history failed to accomplish its noble objectives fully?
Religion—A Great Hindrance
One major complication is the role that religion plays in world affairs. True, ever since the inception of the United Nations, the principal religions of the world have pledged their support to that organization. Referring to its 50th anniversary, Pope John Paul II spoke of the United Nations as “the instrument par excellence for promoting and safeguarding peace.” His sentiments are shared by a global community of religious leaders. But this tactful liaison between religion and government cannot hide the fact that religion has been a hindrance and a nuisance to the United Nations.
For centuries religion has played a prime role in promoting or supporting nationalistic hatred, wars, and genocides. In recent years, under the cloak of religious fervor, neighbors have killed one another. The term “ethnic cleansing” has been widely used in connection with the war in the Balkans. However, the violent hatred that many there have for one another is based on religious affiliation rather than on race, since most of them have the same ethnic roots. Yes, religion must accept much of the responsibility for the bloodbath in the former Yugoslavia, and the United Nations has not been able to stop it.
Appropriately, a college professor of religion recently stated that “in a post cold-war world of increasing religious militancies, an examination of religion and genocide may be one of our more pressing priorities, despite the discomfort it engenders.” A new awareness of how religion is impeding the efforts for world peace is evident today.
A 1981 UN declaration stated: “Concerned by manifestations of intolerance and by the existence of discrimination in matters of religion or belief still in evidence in some areas of the world, Resolved to adopt all necessary measures for the speedy elimination of such intolerance in all its forms and manifestations and to prevent and combat discrimination on the ground of religion or belief.”
In harmony with their declaration, the United Nations has declared 1995 to be the Year for Tolerance. Realistically speaking, though, will it ever be possible to achieve peace and security in a world divided by religion?
The Future of Religion
A prophecy in the Bible book of Revelation provides the answer. It speaks of a symbolic “great harlot” that sits as “a queen” and has “a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” This harlot lives “in shameless luxury” and has relations with the world’s governments. These governments are depicted as “a scarlet-colored wild beast,” upon which the harlot rides in comfort. (Revelation 17:1-5, 18; 18:7) Known as “Babylon the Great,” this powerful and immoral woman is named after ancient Babylon, the cradle of idolatrous religion. Appropriately, today the harlot represents all the world’s religions, which have mingled in with the affairs of governments.
The account goes on to say that, in time, God will put it into the hearts of militaristic components of the wild beast to take action. These “will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) Thus Jehovah God himself will have taken the initiative by maneuvering powerful nations into a campaign to remove false religion. The worldwide religious system, with its luxurious temples and shrines, will be completely devastated. Religious hindrance to establishing peace and security will then be out of their way. But even then, will there be real peace and security on earth?
Imperfect Human Nature
Is there any guarantee that eliminating religion will really clear the way for a world without war? No. The United Nations will continue to face an ironic situation. On the one hand, people want peace and security. Yet, on the other hand, it is people who pose the greatest threat to peace and security. Hatred, pride, egotism, selfishness, and ignorance are human traits at the root of all conflicts and wars.—James 4:1-4.
The Bible foretold that in our day people would be “lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride.”—2 Timothy 3:1-4.
Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali acknowledged that “the world is suffering from a social and moral crisis which, in many societies, is of immense proportions.” No amount of diplomatic maneuvers can neutralize the harmful traits of imperfect human nature.—Compare Genesis 8:21; Jeremiah 17:9.Jesus Christ—The Prince of Peace
Clearly, the United Nations does not have the ability to bring world peace. Its members and supporters are all imperfect humans, notwithstanding their lofty goals. The Bible says that “to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23) Furthermore, God warns: “Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.”—Psalm 146:3.
The Bible foretells what Jehovah will accomplish through his Son, the “Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6, 7 states: “There has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end.”
The nations of the world have been wearied by 50 years of frustrated efforts. Very soon they will destroy harlotlike religious organizations. Then Jesus Christ, the “King of kings and Lord of lords,” and his army of heavenly warriors will dissolve all human governments and put to death all who reject God’s sovereignty. (Revelation 19:11-21; compare Daniel 2:44.) By this means Jehovah God will bring about a world without war.[Footnotes]
For an in-depth study of the prophecy of Revelation regarding Babylon the Great, see chapters 33 to 37 of the book Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand!, published in 1988 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
[Box on page 7]THE CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE UNITED NATIONS
In Bible prophecy, human governments are often symbolized by wild beasts. (Daniel 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22) Hence, for many decades the Watchtower magazine has identified the wild beasts of Revelation chapters 13 and 17 with today’s worldly governments. This includes the United Nations, which is depicted in Revelation chapter 17 as a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns.
However, this Scriptural position does not condone any form of disrespect toward governments or their officials. The Bible clearly states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.”—Romans 13:1, 2.
Accordingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are maintaining strict political neutrality, do not interfere with human governments. They never foment revolution or participate in acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they recognize that some form of government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.—Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1.
Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.—Acts 5:29.
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JW Response to NGO/UN info
by Andrew Farrell infollowing is the response of a jw to the information regarding the un/ngo status of the watchtower society.
it seems not all will see with clarity the hypocritical position of the organisation in this matter:.
andrew,.
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cyberguy
From what I understand, CO's in the US (mainland, not Hawaii) received a letter from the GB that they were to read to congregations regarding the Question From (to) Readers, regarding voting. I hope that some CO will forward that letter to some of us so that it can be posted and provided to the UN's DPI/NGO regarding Watchtower's position and human rights!
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JW Response to NGO/UN info
by Andrew Farrell infollowing is the response of a jw to the information regarding the un/ngo status of the watchtower society.
it seems not all will see with clarity the hypocritical position of the organisation in this matter:.
andrew,.
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cyberguy
Who's the jerk that wrote you that stupid response? You'll notice that jerks like this like to shift the blame on the so-called "apostates!"
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UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS
by MacHislopp infollowing the link given by kent,.
i have several observation to make:.
(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).
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cyberguy
From what I understand, CO's in the US (mainland, not Hawaii) received a letter from the GB that they were to read to congregations regarding the Question From (to) Readers, regarding voting. I hope that some CO will forward that letter to some of us so that it can be posted and provided to the UN's DPI/NGO regarding Watchtower's position and human rights!
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UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS
by MacHislopp infollowing the link given by kent,.
i have several observation to make:.
(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).
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cyberguy
>> Something very interesting about this Question from reader article
>> is that they sent the Cos out to all the congregations to verbally
>> tell us, the rank and file, that the original rules stand, that
>> >> the article was for Jws in other countries. You vote , automatic
>> disassociation.
>> This was very dishonest to the public,JWs, and any Governmental
>> agencies that read it.
>> I want to know why!!!Well, in light of this latest UN expose, I suspect that they'll issue other directives in the near future, such as blood transfusions are "ok" in some parts of the world (i.e., parts of the world where states subject to the UN, require freedom of choice) if your conscious allows you to! But in other parts of the world, they'll DA'ya faster than you can blink your eyes if you even think about doing it (which is the current standard in the US for registering to vote)! In summary, we now seem to have one set of rules for witnesses living in the "West" and another set of rules if you live in former Soviet countries! That is, in some places, voting is a conscious matter and in other places you can be DA'ed. This truly smacks of sectarianism!