Posts by Cygnus

The situation you describe was indeed unfortunate. Bill Bowen's recorded phone conversation was also poor judgment by whoever he was talking to. But I highly doubt that the policy >>>today<<< is that of which you describe.

one,

Yes my wife is a JW, but that has little to do with my motives. I am friendly with certain liberal JWs that know how to take care of themselves without asking Watchtower what to do all the time. I admire that they have faith, but buck the system, and yet remain in good standing. I admire You Know in that regard as well (although his claims against apostates are ridiculous). Honestly, I feel pity for JWs who get told stupid advice from elders or the Society and don't have the guts to make their own decision if they feel the advice or direction they were receiving was inadequate or even just downright wrong.

hillary,

Thanks again for your posts.

7

Story: My first cats

by Jim_TX in

jw
friends

it was sufficient for a single person such as myself, and i went about making it livable.. i got me a dog, weasel which i have written about and i then got me a couple of cats.

this story is about how i acquired my first two cats.. i worked at a company where cats kinda got taken to and left.

they were kinda wild after a while and other cats were born well, you know how it goes.. there was this one cute little female calico kitten that i would take lunch scraps to and others would also put out little bowls of milk for.. i started trying to get her confidence talking to her and letting her hear my voice.

Cygnus

Jim,

I really appreciated that story. We lost one of our cats 4 weeks ago and he hasn't been seen since (we let our cats out every night). He was quite a crazy cat, always looking for trouble! If you have seen the movie "A River Runs Through It" he was like the character played by Brad Pitt. Reckless, carefree, taking chances.

He loved people. He couldn't get enough of visitors. The plumber would come over and he'd jump into the bathtub with him. That is why I think he is okay somewhere and he found a new home.

My other two cats caught a big rabbit last night and ripped it to pieces. They ate half the rabbit and left some organs, its lower torso and half of its head. Cats are awesome!

41

He Loves Me After All!

by COMF in

jw
friends

this is a story about the heart-pounding rollercoaster ride of buying a house and how i saw the proof that god really does love me.. some of you, especially newer ones, probably don't know that when i left the organization in 1987, i left still believing that the organization was the true religion, which meant, since i couldn't stay in it and keep my sanity, that jehovah didn't want me.

after 12 years of trying as sincerely as is possible to get his help with what was wrong, i gave up and quit, and literally prayed to jehovah saying, "it's obvious that you don't intend to help me; therefore i can only assume you don't want me.

fine; have it your way.

Cygnus

Way to go Fred!

I bought my first house three years ago. It is exciting!

And then the garage door breaks. And then you get ants in the house. And then the kitchen plumbing fails. And you have to refurnish the sucker every 3 years! ;)

BTW, like Princess said, that house would be worth twice as much in western NY.

49

WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

how would the wt public information explain their position on other crimes such as bank robbery, rape, or even murder?

would they present their position in the same way as child molestation?

if so here is an example for wt media to post with the proper changes.. .

Cygnus

Briefly, we are talking about what JW elders ought to do within the congregation. Should the accused be investigated or not? This investigation has nothing to do with the criminality of the matter. It has to do with whether congregation judicial action will take place.

I also do not believe the Society's position is for a JW to completely ignore evidence of a molestation, nor for the elders to tell people to be quiet and cover it up. Certainly some elders have done this, but is that the current policy from HQ?

If it is (and surely you know more about this than I do Alan) then I am leading this into a fruitless discussion. Make no mistake - I am not defending the Watchtower. However, the elders' primary responsibility is to the congregation and not the law. That is the JW perspective, right or wrong.

I would be interested to know what congregational censures or punishments you would be willing to place on a man who was accused of two Witness kids of molesting them but was found not guilty in a court of law.

82

Thank you for the support

by Erica in

jw
friends

i can't find the words that would express how grateful i am for all the support, not only for all of you to back me on the dateline show but for my trial as well.

i don't think i would have had the courage to go through the trauma if it wasn't for all your prayers and encouragement.

dateline was a huge help for many and i know this because i have recieved quite a few calls, one from a current jdub who wants out for the safety of his 16 month old baby, i was so excited that he lifted the veil and saw it for the pure truth that it was.

Cygnus

Erica, I have to admit, you are one fine mamacita.

43

Congregation Letter 5-24-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

christian congregation.

of jehovah's witnesses.

2528 route 22 patterson ny 12563-2237 phone (845) 306 1100 .

Cygnus

The letter looks good to me.

: We expect the elders to investigate every allegation of chili abuse.

49

WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

how would the wt public information explain their position on other crimes such as bank robbery, rape, or even murder?

would they present their position in the same way as child molestation?

if so here is an example for wt media to post with the proper changes.. .

Cygnus

Hillary,

Thank you. You summed up my motives well.

Elsewhere,

: Are you saying that since JWs base their “Two Witnesses” law on the bible, that it is OK for them to use it, even when a serious offence has been committed and secular law demands further investigation?

I am not saying it is "OK." There are a lot of things about JWism that I disagree with. Also there are many things in state law enforcement that I also disagree with. However, I get very uncomfortable when people are told how they MUST handle certain matters.

This is not to say that I support elders who have tried to keep JWs from going to the police. However, as far as the congregation goes, I see no reason to reform the internal protocol which demands two witnesses to an alleged sin.

I think some accusations against JWs are rather absurd ("a child molestor is knocking at your door!"). And I think that the Society's current position is reasonable. The faults and errors and misapplications of local congregations appointing men to positions of responsibility or allowing them to go door to door alone is not the Society's fault.

49

WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

how would the wt public information explain their position on other crimes such as bank robbery, rape, or even murder?

would they present their position in the same way as child molestation?

if so here is an example for wt media to post with the proper changes.. .

Cygnus

Hi Alan,

: Bill's analogy is valid because it parodies how the Society handles a murder case as opposed to a molestation case. It does this by showing the ridiculousness of handling a murder case by the same principles and rules as it does a molestation case.

That was my point. Stealing, fraud and other crimes are also DFing offences, but every case is handled slightly different. I understand where Bill is coming from but I think he was simply trying to sensationalize the issue.

: The Society has two serious problems in its application of the two-witnesses rule: (1) the rule is ancient and outmoded;

I don't disagree, however, the BIBLE has it as a rule, both in the Old and the New testaments. My question was, should the JWs divert from a clear biblical directive because Caesar says so?

: (2) it does not strictly follow the rule.

You give the example of two elders spying on a brother who spends the night at a known homosexual's house. That is far different from the accusation of one child against someone who otherwise has a good reputation in the congregation.

I haven't much to comment on regarding your speculation that high-level JWs are molesters themselves.

: I'm beginning to wonder, Cygnus, if you're not longing for that warm old fuzzy nothingness that comprises the JW world, a world where real thinking is not desired or welcomed.

On the contrary, Alan. On this board I see a gang mentality and a lot of people who will jump on the bandwagon as long as it is anti-Watchtower. I have no love for the Watchtower at all, but it seems like nobody wants to ask Bill Bowen or anyone else any tough questions.

49

WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

how would the wt public information explain their position on other crimes such as bank robbery, rape, or even murder?

would they present their position in the same way as child molestation?

if so here is an example for wt media to post with the proper changes.. .

Cygnus

Elsewhere,

What laws are the Society's protocol violating?

It seems to me that a religious institution that considers the Bible as its ultimate authority would see that its directives supercede worldly directives. Is there a footnote in Paul's letter that says the two witnesses procedure ought to be discontinued in the case of a child's accusation?