we ex-jws know very well how much the watchtower society put us under pressure to believe that "armageddon is just around the corner".
they've been doing it in one form or another ever since charles taze russell began publishing his nonsense.
in 1877 he advocated that true christians should believe that christ would "take them home" in 1878. when that didn't happen he moved the event up to 1881. after that he focused on 1914.. the society is still doing pretty much the same thing, building up expectations and then revising them, decade after decade.
Boy, did some of you miss a little sub-message in the titles? Look again:
"Now More Than Ever, Stay Awake!" and "Keep on the Watch!"
See it? First one is obvious, second one needs modification.
1) Now More Than Ever, Stay "AWAKE!"
2) Keep on the "WATCH(TOWER)!"
Coincidence? I think not.
did you know cassius clay (better known as muhammed ali) was named after a white reformist and abolitionist?.
lisa.
food for thought class.
I still say Cassius Clay could kick Muhammed Ali's butt.
No! Wait...!
we ex-jws know very well how much the watchtower society put us under pressure to believe that "armageddon is just around the corner".
they've been doing it in one form or another ever since charles taze russell began publishing his nonsense.
in 1877 he advocated that true christians should believe that christ would "take them home" in 1878. when that didn't happen he moved the event up to 1881. after that he focused on 1914.. the society is still doing pretty much the same thing, building up expectations and then revising them, decade after decade.
Valis,
You just killed my eternal adoration for Carmen Miranda...muito 'brigado!
okay, i know that historical evidence is that jerusalem fell in 586/7 instead of 607 - as the wtbts would have.
however, that is not compelling enough to show a hypothetical jw.
they (generally) must not only be show that the opposition is correct, but that the wtbts is wrong.
A Rolf Furuli link about this "new chronology" opinion:
http://www.geocities.com/yhwhbible/oslo_chronology.htm
Nope...can't say it proves or disproves: 586/587 or 607. It's been called a "different" approach", in other words, an "opinion". Try again.
I like the end of this though:
Ancient history cannot be proven, because there are no living informants. Any attempt to make a chronological scheme of the kings of ancient nations is tentative. The Oslo chronology does not claim to represent the final word of the matter, but it represents a new approach to chronology. It does not generally challenge the interpretations and datings of astronomical tablets by experts such as Sachs, Hunger, Watson, and Steel, but it questions the origin and quality of the tablets, thus scrutinizing the connection between the dates and regnal year of real kings. Its advantage is that the cuneiform data are not seen through the glasses of the traditional chronology, but the evidence of each tablet is presented in its own right. It is also an advantage that published cuneiform sources are much more numerous and complete than was the case 50 years ago when Parker and Dubberstein did their work. The real importance of the Oslo chronology, therefore, is not that it has established the only true chronology, but that it has demonstrated that the accepted chronology, based on P&D is not the only true chronology.
this is bad.
soooo bad.. .
when i was kid, growing up outside seattle, i had the responsibility of taking care of the family yard.
This happened about 17 years ago. I really had no intent to do anything dishonest. I remember being scared and the thought of actually (as I should of done) doing the "right" thing. I remember when I chickened out, when I saw that ugly brown car in their driveway and the idea of "getting away with it" entered my mind. I remember, that after all was done, that I had not accomplished a grand master plan...but rather a quick thinking desperate action that turned out the way it did, I remember feeling lucky.
Come to think of it, whenever I enter the realm of probability, most of the time...it doesn't swing my way. This event was one of the very few times events had unfolded the way it did. I can't credit my imagination, because I acted on impulse really. In all, I thought I was going to be caught somehow. It's weird, how sometimes the most illogical and unsound plans work out the way they do.
I don't even think Mr. & Mrs. Olsen are alive anymore. Mrs. Olsen being around late 60's and Mr. Olsen in the early 70's when this happened.
this is bad.
soooo bad.. .
when i was kid, growing up outside seattle, i had the responsibility of taking care of the family yard.
This is bad. Soooo bad.
When I was kid, growing up outside Seattle, I had the responsibility of taking care of the family yard. I toiled for years tending to our lawn and garden. I have no complaints, because I really enjoyed the creative freedom I had when it came to landscaping. I did a whole assortment of neat projects; making footpaths, edging and manipulating the area of green grass, but most of all I had a garden.
Ah yes, the garden. I would wake up early on Saturday mornings and tend to whatever crop I had. It was fun...UNTILL! Muffy. Good ol Muffy, the rabid poodle who belonged to our next-door neighbor. Every spring and summer (when I tended to my garden) this dog would come over on to our property and bark a vicious storm, keeping about a good 5-foot distance from me. This went on for about 3 years. We issued several complaints to the dogs owner, but the problem persisted. Even went to the point where I just finally ignored the dog all together.
Then it happened.
I was working in my yard and digging a hole for a rose bush. As always, there was Muffy barking up her storm, and as usual, I ignored her. As I was nearing completion of the hole, I hit a rather large rock and was required to take it out by hand. So there I am kneeling down with my ass exposed and prying the rock lose and Muffy finally took a nice big bite just below my right butt cheek. It hurt, man, did it HURT! Now, the shovel I was using was to my immediate right hand side, without thought but on pure reaction...quick like lightning...I grabbed the shovel and did a half circle sweep and WHAP! Muffy goes sailing. No wimper, no whelp, no nothing, Muffy landed with a silent thud on the yard about 10 feet away. Muffy was gone.
Now I begin to panic, I just killed the dog. I do a quick sweep of the area and notice no one had been watching, nor any attention had come to the situation at hand. My mind was racing. I pick up the dog and make my way to the neighbors front door. I had it in mind to tell them the truth, apologize, and take whatever punishment my parents would dish out...until I saw my neighbors car in their driveway. No I didnt? Oh yes...I did. I place Muffy at the base of the back wheel on the passenger side and walked away...returning to the rose bush project.
It was about twenty minutes later when I heard my neighbors car start up, followed by a few moments pause, then the shrill scream of: OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!. At first, since I didnt have a view of the neighbors car, I thought that they had found Muffy lying in the driveway under the wheel. This was quickly dismissed when the screaming continued with, JEFF! I KILLED THE DOG! OH MY GOD! I KILLED THE DOG!
I then race up to the front of the house to see how it would turn out. Even my parents, sisters, and a few other neighbors had come out to see the commotion. There was my neighbor, Mrs. Olsen, holding Muffy in her arms weeping near her husband. She was going on about how she didn't see the dog in the driveway and that she had backed up over it. Then they went inside their house.
I never, to this day, mentioned this story to anyone. I felt terrible.
Edited by - D8TA on 7 January 2003 16:40:16
this whole "reform" nonsense is driving me up the wall.. nothing is going to "reform" the wtbts.
nobody is going to "reform" the wtbts.. crying out loud, be realistic about this.
we have a group of men who have at least some faith & belief that what they do is "divinely" approved, and they have 6 million suckers who follow.
This whole "reform" nonsense is driving me up the wall.
NOTHING is going to "reform" the WTBTS. NOBODY is going to "reform" the WTBTS.
Crying out loud, be realistic about this. We have a group of men who have at least some faith & belief that what they do is "divinely" approved, and they have 6 million suckers who follow. These are by no means nickle & dime grifters looking for the next oportunity to screw their "fellow brothers" over.
They may not hold extreme ideas as ramming planes in to buildings, sending members to blow themselves up on a street corner or drink gallons of tainted Kool-Aid, but they do hold the same intoxicating perception of: God is on our side and our side only. They share from the same cup.
Once a person(s) is drunk with that, there is nothing that is going to pursuade them to change. They, in their mind, have the ultimate authority to do as they please and never go wrong. Few..and I stress FEW...sober up from this.
There are the cracks, and the most you can do is help (if you feel obligated to) those who slip thru them. But these "dreams" of "reform" are simply that..."dreams and fantasy".
You can throw 1914, U.N. NGO, Pedophilia, Child Custody, Blood, Rape, Political Party Card Scandal snow balls at the brick wall of the WTBTS all day...and they will not "reform" or go "mainstream" ever. EVER. Most you can do is get a few member's attention and see if they are willing to climb down the wall themselves.
Save the "oh yah, but but the government(s) can help..." stop, stop, stop. If any arm twisting came from the government(s), this would only be twisted in to a persecution argument and practice would be continued with underground means. Yes, even if it is about Blood and/or Pedophilia. Remember, these Governing Body people have "Jehovah" on their side? They believe it. They're willing to sacrafice their members lives and themselves to this...regardless what the issue is.
Those who work within, or perhaps those who were kicked out and work against, the WTBTS to make reforms are going to find themselves in the same position as those before them. Talking upon the deaf ears of the Governing Body. They aren't interested in compromise, because in their mind, "Jehovah" doesn't allow compromise.
Face it, "reform" isn't going to happen.
this is my first posting , even though i've started to at least 7 times.
i've been reading this forum for 3 months trying to understand how jw's live their lives away from the work environment and how it affects their life decisions.
i'll explain why i need to know in the rest of the post.
Exetazo,
Its not the question of: Who I am.
It is indeed: What I am.
For who you are, frankly, I dont give a damn. Your life, thoughts, emotions, practices, whether youve been to Disneyland or not...nope, not a care in the world. I dont even want to know who you are.
But as to what you are? A Jehovah Witness. Oh sure, if you want to apply labels such as member or X-JW...I can safely, without doubt, say as to what you are. Again, a Jehovah Witness.
Audience: Oh pray, Great Teacher, how have you concluded to this fact?
Simple.
By your disposition and defense, by the very words and demonstrations in the very few posts you've made already. There's no magic, no miracles, no tricks and certainly nothing up my sleeves.
Exetazo...dear, dear Exetazo...I hate to inform you: People are not stupid.
Do you think for one second that everything in my old life as a JW simply vanished? Do you think, that every experience and intimate knowledge of " Witness speak", every little behavior of Witnesses, simply disappeared? Did you think; that the very disposition you hold and words you use are simply that of a slave from the Watchtower and that I simply did not notice?
You reek of Witnessdom. You speak of Witnessdom.
Let me dissect your simple mind for you, for since the truth of what you are is exposed.
Right now, you believe by using the Bible and quoting scripture from such, that you are indestructible. You still reside within a box that gives you a false sense of security. Your tactics employ a method of two-dimensional thinking, and your attacks are from a single point of origin. Your defense mechanism is that of a person who is fighting for their "truth". You believe that your ambiguity results in a clever disguise, but you fail to cover your own footprints. You have the armor of a sentry upon the great Watchtower wall, believing such a keep is well defended. You may; perhaps, left the platoon...but you fail to leave your post, for in doing so, will ultimately call down the wrath of your perceived "Jehovah".
You are a slave of the Watchtower, and you are as transparent as a window.
I do not play the games of semantics and misdirection; yet do not lead yourself to believe that I do not know the game. I had once played that game, as you play now, and I am a master of such a contest.
Do us a favor, stop the bullshit, have some dignity for crying out loud! Pathetic silly closed-minded fools who live by WTBTS rules get eaten alive in the real world. Go back; go back to your Kingdom of Ignorance before its to late.
Edited by - D8TA on 7 January 2003 1:3:27
this is my first posting , even though i've started to at least 7 times.
i've been reading this forum for 3 months trying to understand how jw's live their lives away from the work environment and how it affects their life decisions.
i'll explain why i need to know in the rest of the post.
Exetazo,
I'm sorry, could you please point to the recent publication and/or scripture that encourages "Jehovah's" people to engage in coversation (written, verbal, typed, smoke signals...anything!) with what your WTBTS would label "apostates"?
Is anybody here who posts, lurks, visits, or what not is to understand that you have a "special" reason as to engaging in flagrant behavior that contradicts the "counsel" of "Jehovah's" word? The Watchtower? Awake? Various publications that do not condone your participation in such forms of engagement?
If I'm wrong on this; please send me an e-mail with your name and local congregation and include your PO's name. I assure you that this information will be held private, but only to the extent that I can have a conversation with your PO about you posting on this site. I wish to clarify further, that indeed, your society finds your actions and behaviors appropriate. After all, you've stated that it's your "Jehovah" that judges and there is "free choice" in such organization, and you do not follow "men".
No need for a first name. Just say Brother/Sister (Insert Last Name Here), I attend (Insert Congregation Here-Complete Location). My PO's name is (insert name here).
I mean after all, surely you proclaim such "truths", wan't to put your money where your mouth is?
sitting at computer and hear two males talking as they come up our path.
already suspicious, but when i peep out of my crack in the curtain, i see two blokes i don't recognise, wearing long-sleeved collared shirts and ties in what is strictly t-shirt weather.
suspicion confirmed.
* Governing Body breaks out their own little horn *
* polishes it up all nice & neat *
Toot. Toot.
