Information control. That's all. Standard cult. Look at north korea
freemindfade
JoinedPosts by freemindfade
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18
Why do Jehovah's Witnesses do this?
by runForever inwhy do jehovah's witnesses as individual members readily think that apostates are having a sweeping mass delusion?
if some jw's have known you for a long time do they really think you based everything on some random delusion you randomly had instead of confirming the information?.
it's quite retarded even the bible itself is contradicting them in jeremiah about the 70 years.. i know some know, and some choose not to know but what about the rest?.
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Phases of Mental Extraction
by freemindfade inin only the short time i have been no longer lurking but also posting, i have discovered some people with situations and reactions very similar to mine.
i guess there are different ways people get out, some do something and are outright shunned, then they may find ttatt and stay out.
but there may be more and more like me, who are 100% mentally out, but for the reason of not losing spouse and family fade.
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freemindfade
Also very valid. And grief a is a good way to describe it. I remember feeling so stupid for all the years I just Followed. When I would have doubts and talk myself out of it. -
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Phases of Mental Extraction
by freemindfade inin only the short time i have been no longer lurking but also posting, i have discovered some people with situations and reactions very similar to mine.
i guess there are different ways people get out, some do something and are outright shunned, then they may find ttatt and stay out.
but there may be more and more like me, who are 100% mentally out, but for the reason of not losing spouse and family fade.
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freemindfade
More and more everyday. Yea this was really just my experience and some things I've noticed from others. It would be interesting to collect all the information on the steps and emotions individuals took until they were in a healthy place mentally. To see if there are any patterns to those who try to break out.
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Phases of Mental Extraction
by freemindfade inin only the short time i have been no longer lurking but also posting, i have discovered some people with situations and reactions very similar to mine.
i guess there are different ways people get out, some do something and are outright shunned, then they may find ttatt and stay out.
but there may be more and more like me, who are 100% mentally out, but for the reason of not losing spouse and family fade.
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freemindfade
In only the short time I have been no longer lurking but also posting, I have discovered some people with situations and reactions very similar to mine. I guess there are different ways people get out, some do something and are outright shunned, then they may find TTATT and stay out. But there may be more and more like me, who are 100% mentally out, but for the reason of not losing spouse and family fade. In these similarities I began to believe there must be phases people go through on their way out. Maybe this can be worked on over time, but I propose this as the phases to free your mind.
Phase 1: Listening to your own rational mind. Maybe its what you read in the bible that goes against what your mind choses to accept. Maybe its bible vs science. Perhaps its the literature from the org that you view the same way. Or maybe its and experience from the organization, in the hall or bethel that has got your mind saying, "is this true?". This may happen again and again, for me it was 30 years of my life, but until I decided I was not going to shut off reason and was going to allow myself to think rationally, nothing would change. I had to listen.
Phase 2: Sampling outside "the Truth" This one is hard for me to put my finger on, but somehow you indulge a double life, maybe only dabbling in it, spending time with people outside the org, not caring about entertainment choice, breaking more serious rules, you may still feel guilty in this phase and hold on to some vestiges of being a witness. At this point you still might not read "apostate" material. This may be your last stronghold
Phase 3: Sampling TTATT. The frustration that builds between you're thinking rationally and you seeing that outside the org is not what they make it appear, will now make you give up your last stronghold and begin seeing what the apostates have to say, these people that you've been indoctrinated to believe spread only slander and lies. And being one is the worst possible thing you could be. But you go look. Maybe watch a few youtube vids, look at some exjw ig posts. You dabble, and try to pull back and process but you find this is now starting to feel like an addiction, you've looked down the rabbit hole, now you want to go in.
Phase 4: Immersing yourself in TTATT. Now you begin to feel how bad you were lied to, and the sand castle of "the truth" begins to wash away. How many of your life decision were made based on indoctrination from this organization? How many people did you hurt? Did you see hurt? Time wasted? Then you realize you want the f&%k out... but wait... you can't leave. (hotel California right?) You are stuck, you are embarrassed to be a part of this, and angry and you can't do a damn thing.
Phase 5: Detox. This is a critical point when things can explode. You may get confrontational with your spouse, you may suffer the attention you get as you stop commenting, stop going out in field service, or as you do these things you feel like a complete hypocrite. then this happens:
- Anger, then
- Anxiety, then
- Acceptance
At this critical point things could blow up, spiral out of control, you could DA yourself if thats good with you, but if like me you don't want to lose ties, you must over come the anger and anxiety. You must overcome two ways your mind has worked as a witness to get though the anger and anxiety and make a reasonable decision when you get to acceptance. 1. you must get over you're all or nothing mentality. This is how you used to think, you're in "the truth" or you're out. Stop thinking that way. Take yourself out mentally before removing or not removing yourself physically. 2. As TTATTelder said so eloquently "time is on your side". Why did we rush in to get baptized? My mom made me feel (20 years ago) if i didn't Armageddon was coming tomorrow and I was old enough now that jehovah would kill me for not choosing to be baptized. So I made a life altering decision at just 15! Because time was against me. You must realize there is no point rushing out, this will quell the anxiety you have living a lie. Get comfortable with the idea of thinking for yourself, and learning all you can about real truth. Get used to not being blinded by belief.
The best way to get acceptance which poises you to move on in which ever way you choose, is to find someone else just like you. You need to speak out loud about TTATT and the more you do and lightening doesn't strike you, you will come to peace with all this. Detox is almost done, for me, two of my friends were the first people i felt safe to vent to. Both faders, one for a long time, but still never learned TTATT, and the other just starting. That gave me peace. You can get something similar here, talking to people like you. You will accept. You've freed your mind. But you will always carry this burden of being in it with you. But you can help others, and continued to learn and reinforce your choice to be free.
Some may have varied experiences, but I think think in general the faders that have gotten to our point have gone through some phases.
-FMF
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A Mind at War
by cappytan inright now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.
they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".
certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.
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freemindfade
Great advice TTATTelder, sounds like we al share some shockingly similar experiences. I think one of the best things you said is about time being out your side. At first you feel like its burning you up to realize all this and you want to shake everyone and it gives you anxiety, but once you come to terms with yourself and the time you actually have, you realize that would just be counter productive. Loved your post TE, very sound. And again since joining I can't believe the similarities I share with so many. I think this is a sure fire sign that it is a cult when coming out of it makes you go through a systematic process with different phases. -
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JW's - lack of knowledge of their own beliefs
by Illuminated inwhy are so many jehovah's witnesses unaware of their own beliefs.
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i would imagine the repetitive meetings, studies and door to door knocking would firmly root them in their beliefs.. yet, i've observed they either back out of challenging questions at times, or share a link to jay w org.. .
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freemindfade
the doctrine has become a noisy display of backflips and mystery that no one could follow and I think thats the way they want it. Who wants to be the one in a group think situation to stand out and say "guys this doesn't make any sense to me". no one. witnesses just want to parrot "isn't it wonderful the new light" "moving chariot" "blah blah blah". As them to explain the new understanding of the generation. Its so convoluted the brush strokes keep getting broader and broader so its harder to be in the wrong. -
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How much real Integrity does the average JW have ?
by Phizzy inconsider the definition of integrity given below :.
" the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.. "a gentleman of complete integrity".
synonyms:.
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freemindfade
They may be honest in paying taxes etc, turing in field service time... maybe... but they are not honest with themselves there are 8 million people pent up in a personality that is not them. A handful this may really be them but most are fighting the real version of themselves. I find this dishonest.
Sincere is also not a strong suit, there are those very sincere and in each hall I've been in I have known some amazing sincere good hearted people. I don't credit the org for that. They are just good people who are inside, the majority have a good deal of insincerity of one sort or another. Just look at the modern day dramas at this last years international and I guess regular district convention. They show typical members to be caddy, nosey, critical backstabbing, judgmental, hypocritical @$$holes. People may say well those are people like that in "the world". Yes, they are everywhere but it is not a global phenomenon created by being in this crazy cult. Thats a case by case basis, being a witness pushed you into this thinking, then it has to be discouraged by the org and WT, the cycle goes on and on
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Q-tips and Coffee Filters helped me learn TTATT
by RedPillPopper inwell they didn't fully teach me ttatt but helped me on the way.............. first thing i do in the morning after waking up is grinding some nice coffee beans and getting the brew started while i take a hot shower.
after the shower i like to clean out all the nasty wax out of my ears with a q-tip (or cotton swab for those not familiar with that term).. while cleaning out my ears i would think about how nice it is we have things like q-tips and coffee filters that make life more enjoyable but at the same time realize that somebody somewhere is in a factory making these.. i can't imagine a child saying "when i grow up i want to work in a factory making coffee filters".
the people who end up really doing that as adults did not set that to be a life goal.
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freemindfade
Its these types of moments when I too would think about these little intricacies of the jw beliefs and ideas and just not be able to philosophically balance them out with rationality. One step beyond this the thing that I could never accept even at the highest point of my trying in the org, was that after a thousand years we get a do over with satan. 1000... things are great... woohoo, oh f%$k look who's back, the devil. *sadtrombone* guess god would need to be sure one last time... or would it be? When the isrealites were suppose to get into the promised land the way it reads is all was gonna be "paradise". Anyway a bit off subject, but many things about the paradise concept don't add up. And I only drink espresso so no filters for me, paradise here I come!! -
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LuckyNun is back
by LuckyNun inlong time no see.. so, since i last posted on here, jws drove my sister to attempt suicide again (she failed, but it was close) and drove my close childhood friend to actually commit suicide.
i too kmy sister in and helped her recover.
i think she's going to pull through.
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freemindfade
you sound like you've seen some serious struggle welcome back. -
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New member, no longer just reader...
by freemindfade inso i joined very recently and began posting and commenting without a formal intro.
been reading for a while, decided it was time to jump in.
mentally i am completely cleansed of this thing, but still have to maintain a minimal involvement for spouse and family.
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freemindfade
I missed that meeting, wife was pissed
The rapture bit that was 5 years ago, they never believed in the rapture as its defined. But all the flip flopping I don't even pay any attention to now, its a waste of time, id rather spend that time learning about physics or ancient cultures and archeology. facts, not these numerological and typical and antitypical nonsense. They are just circling the airport again and there is still nowhere to land...
These doctrine changes are the flavor of the month, more realistically every year i guess, things get "clearer".
Ask any jdub who knocks on your door or who is at a cart to explain the new understanding of the generation, and I would venture to 95% would either say I'll get back to you, or two start flipping through Jw.org to find an answer they could read (not understand) to you. No one knows anymore its too convoluted, and more importantly few (younger ones) care.
9 hours ago