Does the Watchtower Library CD-ROM Contain this Article and if so what changes were made?
Posts by KW13
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Lurking Jehovah's Witnesses - Come Defend your Beliefs Part II
by KW13 inif you read this as a jehovah's witness and fail to reply, either you know in your hearts that your organization doesn't speak the truth or you are in denial.
if its to divide then you are not a christian, if its out of curiousity then i hope you find the answers you are looking for.. the watchtower society have tried to 'fix' what doesn't need fixing.
all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching - if its beneficial for teaching on its own merit, why does it need the watchtower/awake and other literature?
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KW13
If you read this as a Jehovah's Witness and fail to reply, either you know in your hearts that your Organization doesn't speak the truth or you are in denial. If you are here, why? If its to divide then you are not a Christian, if its out of curiousity then i hope you find the answers you are looking for.
The Watchtower Society have tried to 'fix' what doesn't need fixing. All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for TEACHING - If its beneficial for Teaching on its own merit, why does it need The Watchtower/Awake and other Literature? No matter what we try to do, we will only weaken the message.
Listen to how the Society's literature is described 'Bible Based'. This is a license to do as they please, because it isn't just biblical, it is 'Bible Based'. Built on top of the Bible, not part of it. It is an extension. I am not on about motive, i am on about the results of our actions.
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2 Timothy 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
That scripture isn't speaking to a 'group' or an organized structure but rather individuals. The Watchtower Society can never fit the criteria sent because they claim that they are necessary to have a relationship with God when the Bible clearly states the only way to God is through Christ Jesus. (Read John 14:6 without your tinted glasses on).
1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Pretty clear isn't it.
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In the 1920's Judge Rutherford said;
As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized." How would it be recognized? What event would trigger the ushering in of the kingdom?
Rutherford explained, "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection" (Read your Proclaimers book, it tells at least half the Story - it fails to include Beth Sarim).
So confident and confused was Judge Rutherford that a house called Beth Sarim was built for these Prophets in preparation for their resurrection. It was built as a testament to the world but instead served to be an embarrassing reminder.
Now if i claimed something was going to happen and it failed to occur, not only have i attempted to prophesy i have also failed in doing so. You'll hear many Jehovah's Witnesses call Prophecy 'History Written in Advance' with such faith in these things. However in this case one thing is clear, nothing happened. The faithful prophets to my knowledge have failed to appear.
Lets go to Deuteronomy 18:21-22;
You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
The Watchtower Society deserves NO respect and it holds no authority. There is no excuse for failed prophecy. New Light doesn't Contradict Old Light, it adds to it. If i preached what the Society preached 100 years ago now as a Jehovah's Witness i'd be disfellowshipped at best. In 1919 the Society claim that Jesus selected them as his earthly representatives, therefore when they speak they do so 'on behalf of jesus' or in his name.
Now i know you like to think that 1914 was the Original date predicted for when Christ began ruling invisibly in heaven but unfortunately that is a lie too. This was infact done in the late 1800's and 1914 was supposed to be the day when everyone went into heaven, but lets say the Society did have it right; what does that mean?
Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
When you Witnesses believe that the helper Jesus said was sent in his absence isnt granted to you in the same way as it was back then, you deny yourself the ability to truly accept Christ is Lord.
Spiritual Gifts in the Bible varied from Speaking in Tongues, Healing, Prophesy (which we know the Society is still mastering) and more. In the same Scripture where we read about Spiritual Gifts in 1 Corthinthians 12:1-3 it says;
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
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What does Verse 3 say? "and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit". So since you deny yourself the true power and gifts of the spirit, you also deny yourself Jesus Christ. Its there in black and white.
When Witnesses say 'people in tongues speak babble' they fail to appreciate that actually, the speaking of tongues was manifest either in the tongues of other nations or in the tongues of angels; and that it would on occasion require a speaker and a translator for these tongues.
1 Corinthians 13:1 - If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1 Corinthians 14:9-13 but focus on 12 & 13 which i quoted - So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church. Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
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The necessity of failed prophetic dates
by proplog2 init is very tempting to ridicule the jw habit of setting dates for the end of the world/ armageddon/ great tribulation.
but prophecy has been a significant part of the judaeo-christian panorama.
there has also been a great deal of tension between "prophets" and "preists".. .
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KW13
If you believe that the Organization is God's then you believe what they say.
If you believe what they say, you agree with them that ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED OF GOD.
If you believe ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED OF GOD you must accept Deuteronomy 18.
If you accept Deuteronomy 18 then you cannot come to any conclusion other than this 'the watchtower society is a false prophet'.
My Favourite Scripture;
Luke 21:8 - He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. - If that does not describe the Watchtower Society exactly, then i will eat the Bible.
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Let's plan a international apostate convention
by Superfine Apostate inwhat we need: a themea "resolution"a dramaa list of talkssome publicationsinterviews
ideas?
suggestions?
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KW13
if one was in manchester uk i'd go and take the whole family.
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I just received a LOVELy letter from Trevor
by mouthy inin answer to the one i sent him..i had sent him some christian tracts .which he admits he has little use for spiritual things ( which i can understand bless him) but he did say he wouldnt throw them away one day maybe!!!.
he said that he agreed with me that an apology is truly in order ,& wanted to take this time & the opportunity to offer an unreserved apology for his conduct on jwd,of which he is both ashamed & embarrassed to everyone there /\....he also added he wished you all a very happy christmas.. .
he added that he has not been on jwd since ....thought i would let you all know.. so any who do pray .
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KW13
Granny and Others who have forgiven Trevor, i admire your ability to do so. We all make mistakes, we have all lied and continue to but not once have i ever taken things so far as to pretend someone existed, i didn't make the extra effort to make that person loved by all and i didn't kill them off and cause everyone heartache. Do not be so quick to forget the disturbing Photograph he sent to Ian, it doesn't shout out 'ordinary' or someone wanting forgiveness.
I shall reserve my full opinion on trevor, especially in this thread Granny Grace because i respect your decision and who you are. However i do not respect Trevor. I claim to be Christian but i do not know if i could honestly see trevor and react in a decent way - that is not a threat, it is a thought.
BTW - just something i meant to say, i do think your very kind, loving and gentle and i wish that someday i could have the same patience you have...are you sure your not another one of the trevor trinity?
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I'm kinda shakey
by Dagney injust got off phone with newly appointed elder friend.
at the end of the conversation, he says, "you know dagney, we need to have the conversation...the one about meetings...i want to see you in the new system....i think about you every day, everyday!!".
i was all cheerful "sure!!!
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KW13
It sometimes works to play 'depressed' say right now your in the process of a clinical diagnosis and your just trying to get by as it is - think about it though first because it may be the wrong card to play in this situation. You might need to also play him by saying you know its the truth etc
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Wish me luck...I'm about to go on an interview...
by FreedomFrog inremember when i posted a possible job interview at a daycare center...well, i've had 2 phone interviews and 1 face to face coming up in an hour.. getting this job will make or break me at this point...lol.
anyway..i'm excited and nervous at the same time... be back later to let ya all know what went on.. ~freedom frog~.
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KW13
Let us know how it goes FF please!
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Primary Concern(s) for Witnesses
by KW13 indo you feel one of the the primary concerns for most witnesses still in who are faced with the 'concept' of leaving is where else do we go?
afterall just about everything is tarnished by the watchtower society in the mind of every dub.
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KW13
Do you feel one of the the Primary concerns for most witnesses still in who are faced with the 'concept' of leaving is where else do we go? Afterall just about everything is tarnished by the Watchtower Society in the mind of every dub.
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Changes in the Organization and their Effects.
by KW13 inshort term, what do you feel the recent changes the organization has seen and is about to see will do to the witnesses and the society as a whole?.
long term do you feel the changes will do anything positive for the society?.
its very much like big brother with double-speak, mind control and fear.
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KW13
Short Term, what do you feel the recent Changes the Organization has seen and is about to see will do to the Witnesses and the Society as a whole?
Long Term do you feel the Changes will do anything positive for the Society?
Its very much like Big Brother with double-speak, mind control and fear.
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Have elders lost power they once had over the flock?
by Fisherman inthe wts still gives the elders the same authority over the cong as before but is the cong controlled as much by the elders?.
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KW13
I think that that the vast majority of Witnesses are putting on a front anyway and that most of the Witnesses who are in the Organization now have been in a long time, the whole thing is stagnant and without putting down the experiences - people are fed-up of it. Elders represent the Organization and its authority in each Kingdom Hall, if you don't respect the Organization you won't respect the Elders (or at least their position) either.