best of my knowledge it disfellowshipping started in the early 50's.
disassociation only applied for a long time to someone who joined the military and "by their course of action showed they were no longer one of JW's".
u
uninformed
JoinedPosts by uninformed
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10
When did DF'ing & DA'ing start?
by gymbob indoes anyone know exactly when the first mention of disfellowshipping and disassociating appeared in the publications?
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Floating Corpses will Point North says Golden Age Doctor
by VM44 infrom the golden age issue of april 30, 1930:
"it is stated that if a human corpse is left on a float in a tank it will inevitably turn with its head to the north.
even through the lifeless body the lines of magnetic force will go in the direction they prefer.
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uninformed
I hate threads like this!
They depress me that I ever believed anything these guys wrote.
I swallowed their BS for 45 years.
Anyone knows that corpses will float in the east/west position, because the spinning of the earth on its axis will align the bodies parallel to the equator.
Brant
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uninformed
Do any of you really believe that you are Christ's Brothers? Or, is it strictly a power thing?
How do you really feel about all the false prophecies that have come from the WT?
U
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Playing with words...
by Lumptard ini was talking w/ an elder last week about whether or not jws have the only correct interpretation of the bible.
me: is there only one correct interpretation of the bible?.
elder: yes.. me: if there is only one correct interpretation, then why does each religion that is based on the bible have a slightly different interpretation that coincides with what their leaders require of the religion's members?.
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uninformed
Me: Is there only one correct interpretation of the bible?
Elder: Yes.
Me: If there is only one correct interpretation, then why does each religion that is based on the bible have a slightly different interpretation that coincides with what their leaders require of the religion's members?
Elder: Because all of the other religions besides JWs are under the influence of Satan. (shows me the scripture that says "whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one")
Me: So how do JWs know that theirs is the correct interpretation?
Elder: I don't like to use the word "interpretation"
Me: Uh.........wha?
Elder: "Interpretation" has the connotation of someone putting a spin on something. I prefer to use the word "understanding"
Me: I'm just using the dictionary's definition of interpretation. (interpretation: n. The act or process of explaining the meaning of something.)
Elder: Ok, but I still prefer to use "understanding"...The JW's understanding of the bible is the only correct one. (understanding: n.superior power of discernment; enlightened intelligence)
.....and then he went off with some type of circular logic that left me more confused than I was to begin with.
Where the real problem is with the JW logic, is that although they claim to have the correct interpretation, over a period of time, they often change their "current understanding".
If they were on the hot line with God and the Holy Spirit, they would not have to change, so the question begs, When they say that they are the correct understanding, WHEN was it correct, in 1914 or now, in 1960 or now, in 1994 or 1995. Anyway, I am sure you get the picture.
Its just basically BS, and talk about circular, that is exactly what a fresh pile of bullshit is, circular.
Brant
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uninformed
IP SEC,
Thank you. It is always a pleasure reading your posts. It was nice to meet you last year too at Big Tex's and Cruzenhart.
Brant
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33
Ron Frye's book on Elder Confidentiality
by Confession ini'm still making my way through what is an excellent book by ron frye, former jw and c.o.
i found one of his comments interesting.
on page 68 he speaks affectionately of his wife mavis.... "i especially depended on her because she was observant and discerning.
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uninformed
cconfession,
Your viewpoint is correct. When a person goes to another person with a private or personal issue, it should stop right there. If it became public it could damage people who put trust in the arrangement.
My comment about the broader application of "taking a person to the Congregation" as a final step in trying to resolve personal problems, certainly took out the need for secretiveness and confidentiality.
In the book of James, in the last chapter, it says something to the effect, "Freely confess your sins to one another". In view of that, I think the judicial nature of the body of elders is wrong and is not supported by the Bible. The judicial process is designed, not to restore sinners, but the first consideration is to keep the congregation clean, therefore the elders are not acting in the same manner of Catholic Priests, but rather as "Judges" and Punishers.
So, since the whole process is screwed up, as I look back on it, I wish that I would never have had that horrible power given me, with one exception. I was happy to disfellowship our pedophile presiding overseer. By the way, I didn't hold with confidentially on that one. Anyone that wanted to know, I either told them or let them guess.
I wouldn't abuse confidentiality to protect a horrible person like he was.
Brant
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Ron Frye's book on Elder Confidentiality
by Confession ini'm still making my way through what is an excellent book by ron frye, former jw and c.o.
i found one of his comments interesting.
on page 68 he speaks affectionately of his wife mavis.... "i especially depended on her because she was observant and discerning.
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uninformed
Gregor wrote:
AK Jeff - On more than one occasion it struck me as ludicrous for a commitee of janitors, auto mechanics and ditch diggers to be setting on matters of other peoples personal problems, mental illness and of course child abuse cases that should have been handled by the law. I have to include myself as one who thought they were capable of counseling people who I now realize were seriously in need of professional mental health counseling.
What a great summary! (I am a bricklayer and agree with you, although I may have a little more discernment than a janitor--
I also wanted to comment that all of us, to a man, broke confidentiality at some time or other, though hopefully not over anything that hurt anyone.
I have a problem with the adoration in the WT toward confidentiality anyway. In the Bible I read, it says that serious issues should be taken "to the congregation" and no 'body of janitors or mechanics' was mentioned. Therefore, probably in the early cong. most of the moral issues were probably of general knowledge, such as the issue that was reported on in Corinth. Not a whole lot of "confidentiality" in Pauls letters!
The Trinity in the Org is, the Faithful and discreet slave, the elders and Confidentiality.
Brant
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WTS Has Lost +35% of Elders in US Since 1994????
by Seeker4 inzack, on another thread, said he heard this figure from the platform at both the 2006 elders' school and his recent pioneer school:.
that there were 93,000 elders in 1994, and less than 60,000 today, in the united states.. i thought these figures deserved their own thread, as they are shocking to me, and to see if anyone else has heard anything similar.. i'll post a link to the other thread as well.
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uninformed
seeker,
I appreciated this thread. Sorry that I missed gary's comment re; the number of congs. I must have missed a page, as I try to read everything he writes.
12,000 congs with 60,000 elders is a real indicator that things are going south.
I resigned in 2000 after 30 years, leaving about 10 left on our body. Of that 10, I know of at least 2 that have since been removed.
That would work in the percentages, but not for move ins or appointments.
u
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WTS Has Lost +35% of Elders in US Since 1994????
by Seeker4 inzack, on another thread, said he heard this figure from the platform at both the 2006 elders' school and his recent pioneer school:.
that there were 93,000 elders in 1994, and less than 60,000 today, in the united states.. i thought these figures deserved their own thread, as they are shocking to me, and to see if anyone else has heard anything similar.. i'll post a link to the other thread as well.
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uninformed
I was wondering for the sake of discussion how many congregations are there in the U.S.
That would make how many elders per congregation?
Brant
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54
Da' Colt's and Da' Bears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by AK - Jeff ini consider brooke my friend - but two weeks from now i will be rooting against your bears, babe!!!.
what a finish for the colts - bout time.
i have been waiting for them to get to the "show" since they moved to indiana.. go colts!
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uninformed
Saints losing hurt me bad.
I quit watching the Colts at half time till my son called me to tell me in the 3rd that they were tied! I had to go back!
WHAT a finish!
U