Posts by jah1914

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

jah1914

Sorry I still am working on this formatting thing. If I got this right, this should be easier to read.

So after the Revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how Russell's interpertation of Revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why I respect FDS because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong." (insert vomit here) Afterwards, me and the Book Study conductor(I have to at least give him credit, he is someone I can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means. He basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what? (Not so matter of fact though)

He gave me an illustration that I need to logically poke holes in(no purely emotional responses please - if you have some scriptures in mind that would be helpful too.)

Here it goes, best of my recollection(and yes he really did take the time to explain it this way):

You are a student tutor in a math class. You are a student yourself, but you appear to excel in class and so the teacher has asked you to assist in helping some of the other students. You sincerely just want to help your fellow students, with no-ill motive. You are learning just like they are. Most of the time you have help with a math problem, you give the correct answer and it is verified by other students and the teacher.

However on a couple of math problems you are given, you are unsure of the answer. You ask the teacher, but the teacher encourages you to figure it out, because it will help you as well(after all no teacher just gives you the answer(he used a Gospel scripture here about 'Keep on seeking, asking and you will find'). The teacher wants to see if you can figure it out. So you go to solve the problem with and it turns out you were wrong. Not only that everyone you gave the answer to was wrong. After exhausting numerous possbilities and time, you go to the teacher who helps you work out the answer. (Then he asked me some questions)
1. What was true about the answer? Did the answer change or did your understanding of it change?
2. How should your fellow students react to the mistake(s) you made? How would you want them to react? Once you have what you believe to be the correct answer, should you bring it back to them?
3. Do you think the teacher is upset that you tried and got the wrong answer to a very difficult problem? Would he be more upset if you just gave up and didn't keep trying to solve the problem? He would certainly be justified in being upset and removing you as a tutor if in the problem you missed some simple math portions(incorrectly added numbers, etc), but that wasn't the case you got the simple stuff right, you just missed the difficult portions.How should the teacher feel? After all you were one of the few to actually set up and try to help the other students?

He didn't try to answer the questions(he said he wanted them to stew). I know what he was trying to illustrate(student tutor = FDS, student = general JW's, teacher = Jesus) and he gave me what each person in the illustration represented, but I need help in logically poking holes in it. We are going to discuss next bookstudy.

Thanks in advance.

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

jah1914

So after the Revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how Russell's interpertation of Revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why I respect FDS because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong." (insert vomit here) Afterwards, me and the Book Study conductor(I have to at least give him credit, he is someone I can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means. He basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what? (Not so matter of fact though) He gave me an illustration that I need to logically poke holes in(no purely emotional responses please - if you have some scriptures in mind that would be helpful too.) Here it goes, best of my recollection(and yes he really did take the time to explain it this way): You are a student tutor in a math class. You are a student yourself, but you appear to excel in class and so the teacher has asked you to assist in helping some of the other students. You sincerely just want to help your fellow students, with no-ill motive. You are learning just like they are. Most of the time you have help with a math problem, you give the correct answer and it is verified by other students and the teacher. However on a couple of math problems you are given, you are unsure of the answer. You ask the teacher, but the teacher encourages you to figure it out, because it will help you as well(after all no teacher just gives you the answer(he used a Gospel scripture here about 'Keep on seeking, asking and you will find'). The teacher wants to see if you can figure it out. So you go to solve the problem with and it turns out you were wrong. Not only that everyone you gave the answer to was wrong. After exhausting numerous possbilities and time, you go to the teacher who helps you work out the answer. (Then he asked me some questions) 1. What was true about the answer? Did the answer change or did your understanding of it change? 2. How should your fellow students react to the mistake(s) you made? How would you want them to react? Once you have what you believe to be the correct answer, should you bring it back to them? 3. Do you think the teacher is upset that you tried and got the wrong answer to a very difficult problem? Would he be more upset if you just gave up and didn't keep trying to solve the problem? He would certainly be justified in being upset and removing you as a tutor if in the problem you missed some simple math portions(incorrectly added numbers, etc), but that wasn't the case you got the simple stuff right, you just missed the difficult portions.How should the teacher feel? After all you were one of the few to actually set up and try to help the other students? He didn't try to answer the questions(he said he wanted them to stew). I know what he was trying to illustrate(student tutor = FDS, student = general JW's, teacher = Jesus) and he gave me what each person in the illustration represented, but I need help in logically poking holes in it. We are going to discuss next bookstudy. Thanks in advance.

89

German KM 09/07 Translated! Watchtower cracks down on study groups.

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

here is the best that i could do, but i think it gets the main points of the articles across.

i wouldn't bet my life on this translation, but i think it is good enough for our purposes.

question box.

jah1914

Really sad. Very few JWs will even realize what is happening here. As many of you have pointed out this is a complete reversal of how the modern-day witnesses were formed. I don't use this often, but this is a 'cult-like' move. Few will open there eyes(my wife is one) and see that the very thing she critizes non-JWs for(not being open minded and studying the bible) is the same thing the FDS(I mean GB) is asking her to do.

So sad. This will probably cause a divide in our relationship as I refuse to relinquish the God given authorization to "carefully search the scriptures."

Oh well....Jesus said there would be days like this.

78

Have you ever faked a service report?

by Orgull in

it's only my third day here so, go easy on me.

lol.. seriously, my new doubts have made it harder and harder to go in service.

a few months ago, when a new month rolled around, i realized that i hadn't actually gone in service at all the previous month.

jah1914

That's like asking a woman if she ever faked an orgasm. Of course field service reports are faked. If only by virtue of 'guessing' because you did not right all the placements down or rounding up hours. Can't say I just made one up from scratch though.

18

The New Doom and Gloom Watchtower

by Save My Soul in

i am aware of the new magazines that are coming out in january, r & f and public.

was it said that the new magazines would have more doom and gloom?

what was the phrasing used in the description for the r & f wt?.

jah1914

Hmmm.....so the letter that was read to the congregations specifically states that not all countries will have the Watchtower/Awake divided into public and study editions.

My guess is this is to stop the follow of ammunition to 'apostates' in developing countries, that use resources like to internet to research groups before becoming members. For a certainity doctrine changes are probably coming, but they have introduced 'major' new light before in the magazines. The variable seems to be countries with 'higher' disassociated populations.

112

30 Minute Public Talk-CONFIRMED

by stillajwexelder in

i can confirm (as there seems to be some doubt) at the service meeting last night during the item about the new watchtower, a letter was read by the po.

the public talk is to be 30 minutes long.

this is to allow for more association and ministry.. lengthy negative introductions about the state of the system of things/deep last days etc are to be heavily curtailed.

jah1914

Sorry for double-posting in another forum. I tried to delete, but it told me I did not have permission to delete a post. It's been a while since I've signed on and didn't see the rules.

112

30 Minute Public Talk-CONFIRMED

by stillajwexelder in

i can confirm (as there seems to be some doubt) at the service meeting last night during the item about the new watchtower, a letter was read by the po.

the public talk is to be 30 minutes long.

this is to allow for more association and ministry.. lengthy negative introductions about the state of the system of things/deep last days etc are to be heavily curtailed.

jah1914

I can confirm as well. The letter was read in our congregation this week. The public talk is 30 minutes. The watchtower stays the same. The explanation was that it would allow for more time to 'fellowship',participate in field service, and reduce contention among congregations that share a single hall. This reason falls apart for several reasons: 1. Fellowship - most people fellowship(if at all) after the meetings. Shorting the talk really doesn't do anything for that especially just 15 minutes. 2. Participate in field service - Again what does 15 minutes really do in that sense? Does it really save that much time? 3. Reduce contention among congregations sharing a hall - Everyone knows that the BOE have some freedom in establishing meeting times. If congestion was a problem the elders at the local level would simply adjust the time, like ours did by 30 minutes. I think the real reason is that they are trying to force the brothers to stick to the outline and not add material\illustrations. The 'good' brothers try to spice these boring talks up, but that naturally leads to interjection of personal interpretation and not Service Desk(where the talks are written) interpretation. In fact it was specifically mentioned that no 'new' outlines are currently being provided and that the brothers should reduce their talks by cutting out lengthy introductions and conclusions and to share the main scriptual points. Also, I think they are further trying to show that the Watchtower study is the main point of coming to the Sunday meeting. I've had brothers tell me before that the public talk was just 'filler' time and if you had to choose between the Watchtower or Public Talk the watchtower wins. We also had a letter on ordering the new watchtower(Public vs Study Editions). The cover won't change on the Study Edition other than the list of study articles will be on the front.(Much like the current large print watchtower edition), except I suspect they will have some pictures and illustrations. After the meeting I asked one of the elders if since the Watchtower - Study Edition was meant for "baptized witnesses and those making spiritual progress"(the letter words, not mine), would we after the meeting be asking for the general public to leave? Is that why the small change of viewing the two as a seperate meeting with the watchtower conductor being asked up on the stage before the song is happening? He didn't give me an answer, he just said, "Big changes, big changes." Although big changes with this organization is always relative. Here is my theory, nothing to back it up. I think that this will happen only in the U.S. and European countries where attendance is low and "apostasy" and leaks abound. I say that because the letter about the watchtower changes said that not all countries would have separate public and study editions. I see in the future where the Watchtower study will be broken into its own meeting on a separate day. The public meeting will consist just of the 30 minute talk, since that is the average person's attention span, and that will be it for Sundays, or maybe they will move the book study to Sunday. I do tend to ramble. Sorry if my post is confusing.

74

Public talk will be reduced to 30 minutes

by martinjw7 in

have you heard about a letter for all congregations announced next new change in wts politics?.

in letter is information that the time for the public talk will be reduced to 30 minutes.. does anyone have a copy?

.

jah1914

I can confirm. The letter was read in our congregation this week. The public talk is 30 minutes. The watchtower stays the same. The explanation was that it would allow for more time to 'fellowship',participate in field service, and reduce contention among congregations that share a single hall. This reason falls apart for several reasons: 1. Fellowship - most people fellowship(if at all) after the meetings. Shorting the talk really doesn't do anything for that especially just 15 minutes. 2. Participate in field service - Again what does 15 minutes really do in that sense? Does it really save that much time? 3. Reduce contention among congregations sharing a hall - Everyone knows that the BOE have some freedom in establishing meeting times. If congestion was a problem the elders at the local level would simply adjust the time, like ours did by 30 minutes. I think the real reason is that they are trying to force the brothers to stick to the outline and not add material\illustrations. The 'good' brothers try to spice these boring talks up, but that naturally leads to interjection of personal interpretation and not Service Desk(where the talks are written) interpretation. In fact it was specifically mentioned that no 'new' outlines are currently being provided and that the brothers should reduce their talks by cutting out lengthy introductions and conclusions and to share the main scriptual points. Also, I think they are further trying to show that the Watchtower study is the main point of coming to the Sunday meeting. I've had brothers tell me before that the public talk was just 'filler' time and if you had to choose between the Watchtower or Public Talk the watchtower wins. We also had a letter on ordering the new watchtower(Public vs Study Editions). The cover won't change on the Study Edition other than the list of study articles will be on the front.(Much like the current large print watchtower edition), except I suspect they will have some pictures and illustrations. After the meeting I asked one of the elders if since the Watchtower - Study Edition was meant for "baptized witnesses and those making spiritual progress"(the letter words, not mine), would we after the meeting be asking for the general public to leave? Is that why the small change of viewing the two as a seperate meeting with the watchtower conductor being asked up on the stage before the song is happening? He didn't give me an answer, he just said, "Big changes, big changes." Although big changes with this organization is always relative. Here is my theory, nothing to back it up. I think that this will happen only in the U.S. and European countries where attendance is low and "apostasy" and leaks abound. I say that because the letter about the watchtower changes said that not all countries would have separate public and study editions. I see in the future where the Watchtower study will be broken into its own meeting on a separate day. The public meeting will consist just of the 30 minute talk, since that is the average person's attention span, and that will be it for Sundays, or maybe they will move the book study to Sunday. I do tend to ramble. Sorry if my post is confusing.

13

Do the dubs know WHY there delivering Kingdom News 37?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i just got my copy of the sep km.

there's an article, about 6 paragraphs inside about the "false religions end is near" campaign.. i was surprised that the first paragraoh didn't even tell the dubs why they were doing this campaign.

they left the explanation to a couple of vague sentences in the last paragraph about how false religion's end is near.. it seems that the dubs don't know why they're doing this, only that they have to do it and place their 50 copies.. odd..

jah1914

Don't post here often. Something else is strange about(at least from what I can remember) the witnesses are being asked to record the number of tracts they personally place. That seems new to me for a campaign. I wonder if a 'seperating' work is going on? Maybe publishers who do not distribute the tract will be on an apostate 'watch' list.

238

OK believers, time to put up or shut up...

by Gregor in

apparently, a large percentage of xjw's who post on this site have embraced some other form of god/jesus belief to replace the wt doctrine.

most of them fall into the "i accept the lord jesus christ as my personal savior" class.

they are still extremely attached to the old "forgiveness of sin through the shed blood of jc" line.

jah1914

AuldSoul,

I noticed that Gregor refuses to answer you as well. As someone who limps between belief and disbelief I must say you have given a most reasoned approach. At least more reasoned than anything I have heard. It actually has me thinking. I even printed this entire thread out. Gregor, Kid-A I think that if you are being honest with yourselves, even if you don't agree with AuDSoul you must at least acknowledge that he articulated his position well.

So Gregor......we all await your logical response to AuldSoul. I'm sure you have one or you wouldn't have made the original challenge to 'put up or shut up'. So will you prove true to your own request? Will you 'put up or shut up'. Thus far it appears you have chosen to shut up.

Regards

jah1914