i have heard much about crooked watchtower lawyers on this site and wondered if anyone had anything to back this up?
i have my own experience (extremely bad) and was wondering about others.
Jerry,
I know for a fact that at least one of the practicing jw attorney's in Crooklyn, was given his education by the wtbs. Iam sure there are other's, either practicing or being groomed to do so.
I have little doubt that these bought and paid for, 'mouth pieces', are biased enough, to qualify being considered as 'crooked', in the fullest sense of the word!
Danny
i see lots of people posting threads about their new toys.
mostly male, trucks, motorcycles stuff like that.
this afternoon while making lattes for mulan and big red, my espresso machine became quite rude with me.
Thanks for info guy's.
Suppose Santa will require me to have been 'very very good' this last year......before I find this one in my stocking?
SantaBear
i see lots of people posting threads about their new toys.
mostly male, trucks, motorcycles stuff like that.
this afternoon while making lattes for mulan and big red, my espresso machine became quite rude with me.
Mornin Princess,
Iam glad you posted this, an expresso maker with milk steamer is on my Christmas wish list.
Would you please post the model # of this William's Sonoma item? I was intrigued by your comments that you had tried other brands and had little satisfaction. I might have to be very specific with Santa, about this particular 'toy'.
Thanks,
Danny
i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
herk,
My first name is Daniel or Danny.........yes I prefer, for now, to leave my last name out. But for those who choose to reveal thier full identity, I applaud them.
Those that do decide to reveal, should not be subject to any more or less critque for doing so. In fact I agree with you....they deserve more consideration for doing so.
Danny
following on the heels of what bowen said about ray, i began to see a statement that real soon began to get under my skin.
i've read it several times since and i hafta say: that little irritant is beginning to fester more than i care for.
the statement was something in the neighborhood of, "let's not get side-tracked with this franz / bowen fiasco and remember who our real enemy is... the watchtower society!".
Tj,
***Life is about delusions, after all. There is no ultimate "truth." Only perception -- what is truth to us, at the time. Point is: my JW experience wasn't ALL bad and I'd be lying if I said it was.***
I think you are right. I have said many times, that many of the lesson's learned while a jw are beneficial. Just the constant pressure to associate, door to door work, was a lesson in social skills, albeit based on religious overtones. It still forced us to deal with various personalities.
Reading and public speaking skills were developed while a jw. Other religions offering no such opportunity for the layman.
Yes I still remember the euphoric feeling's of the spiritual closeness with friends at the KH. A brotherhood. There are a few opportunities outside jwdom for this commaraderie, such as in the military or some of form of law enforcement, sports activity, but the particular jw 'life everlasting' club we enjoyed is very hard to replace.
Still it does not change the effects of wtbs dogma. It was and is an enemy to freedom.
If they (wtbs) stopped shunning, stopped the passing of judgement on other's, they would no longer be considered an enemy of mine. Until they do........I will view them as such.
Danny
if i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
RevMalk,
Your above post, ratify's everything we have been saying.
A sad legacy you leave behind. Your IQ score, along with the blinder's you wear, have allowed serious tunnel vision to cloud your reasoning ability.
Danny
i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
herk,
Thanks for your reply.
No misunderstanding, I understood Hawk's advice. It is the advice one expects from an attorney.
Iam glad you got the spirit of my expression.
With the advent of the internet, the whole ball game changed, as regards information, opinion's, commentary of any sort. Literally the entire world can now be privy to almost anyone's (with courage enough to post them) view of things.
The internet providing a format of uncensored, unedited, commentary by anyone with access to a computer and phone line. I hope those freedom's are not restricted in any way.
The wtbs has endeavored to squelch the rank and file from using it, they have tried to edit or censor thier past writing's, but have been thwarted by the internet. Thank you very much.
Suggesting that an individual modify his name, opinion, or written expression to avoid scrutiny is a form of deception. I should think if 'truth', if justice is the issue, then someone's true agenda or belief's should be known, not supressed.
Iam afraid Jesus's words regarding 'caustious as serpents' have been manipulated to justify almost any form of 'theocratic' or special interest cause at hand.
Danny
i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
Undis,
I'am very glad you agree with me about 'free speech' and expressing opinions. 'Forgiving' me for having them as well........
What Hawk has implied as regards posting by COJ, RF, JP, Frank Toth, is very disturbing to me. Although technically he may be correct in his advice, the end result of his admonition is to suggest that one must 'hide' under an 'anonymous' name, before revealing 'the truth' as regards an opinion expressed on these boards.
What he is suggesting smacks of 'political correctness', which imo has been the catalyst for so much loss of 'freedoms' we used to enjoy. From every corner of debate, every 'special interest', cherished cause, the message is the same...........you better not say, intimate, express, any word or phrase, that may or could be construed as 'against the cause'. Jokes and humor are now suspect in every nuance and word. I despise 'political correctness'.....it makes people appear one way, when the very opposite may be true.
Don't we have enough deceit, enough lies, to deal with in life? Why must we heap more 'guilt', more frustration, on those who may have something very important to say. Rewarding those who maintain 'pc' and hiding thier identities, with the 'carrot' of 'you may now be able to testify'. Oh and lets not forget, have the attorney's, really, really prep them, coach them well, so that the poor repressed sod, doesn't make one mistake.............god forbid.
Danny
if i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
LoneWolf,
One of the best summations of the real issues here. Thank you.
Danny
i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
Hawkaw,
***And if you think for one second that Penton's creditibility is not damaged by what transpired on this board, then your head is completely buried in the sand.***
Once again you make statements that denegrate other's, even though I never even mentioned Jim Penton. What's up with that?
Following your line of reasoning, Bill Bowen better never take the stand! Man what a field day the defendants will have. Yet never a mention about his culpability from you. What is good for the goose is..........
Unfortunately your advice and commentary are obviously biased. So anyone that takes an alternate view, is fodder for your rebuke. This is typical of so many activists, it is the reason many choose to simply stay out of the lime light. It is not worth the effort, just because people like you, Grits, Undiss, RevMalk, cannot accept anything less than full compliance.
Better not speak the truth, better not exspress your honest opionion, you might not get to testify. Well my friend all the prep, all the coaching in the world, does not change the truth. Is it the truth your looking for, or just well stated testimony?
Danny
