Posts by Arthur

14

What is the new belief on 607

by Paksen in

hello this is my first post here, i have been away from anything related to the jw for about 8 years (yeay).

i was wondering if anyone had info or direct me to some links about this 607 (date?

) i've been reading about.

Arthur

Blasted!!!!

LOL at NotaNess. I think he has a demonized mouse that always makes him triple-post.

26

Faith?

by Core88 in

jw
friends

i think of you all allot for the helpful thoughts, and comments that you sent my way this past week.

i think one of my problems is that now that i don't have the routine of going to the meetings and feeling my head with the watchtower and awake, i seem to have little faith in anything now....i don't feel like i "know" god anymore.

every time i have gone to another church i just don't seem to fit in and feel "at home" like i used to at my old kingdom hall.

Arthur

Hi Core88:

You sound very much like me when I first began to question my belief in the Watchtower. When I first left the organization, I felt like I was in free-fall. For a while, I lost all hope and didn't want to live anymore. That's about all I'll say here. I'll be sending you a PM shortly.

21

My disagreement with hubby on use of Jehovah's name around JW's...input

by megsmomma in

jw
friends

ok, this weekend i had a jw at my door and i sincerely gave a anti-wintess to him during which i did tell him i feel closer to jehovah than i ever have and i still believe in jehovah, just not the society.

my husband thinks i should have said "the lord" or "god" instead, because he thinks it sounds like i was being hypicritical in a way.. my take is that to sound like i knew what i was talking about, and to lessen the likliness of him turning his ears off right away, i should talk in a way he is comfortable with.. hubby thinks it is more beneficial to show you are free from their wording and say what you mean from your learning that jehovah is not god's only true name.. .

what do you say when talking to them if you get the chance?.

Arthur

Using the name Jehovah in front of a JW does raise some subtle questions in their own mind such as: "Could Jehovah be listening to this woman's prayers, too?"

JWs believe that a failure to use the name Jehovah in prayer falls short, and will not be listened to. Perhaps they think that Jehovah is confused, and thinks that the prayer is being addressed to Zeus or Krishna.

The name Jehovah is a sort of mystical charm, or mark of spiritual elitism in Watchtower thinking. When I used to interact with householders, their expressions of belieiving in God or praying to God did not impress me. "Every member of Christendom prays to God, or to the Lord" - was my reasoning. However, if anyone should use the name Jehovah or Yahweh, it threw me off.

On the whole however, I don't really makes a big difference. I agree with Narkisoss; that the most it might accomplish is to create intrigue, and to make that individual Witness remember you.

27

my #4 talk tomorrow

by still_in74 in

i have to give a talk on "evidence that gods kingdom is a reality".

how the heck am i going to write and give this talk???

any suggestions????????????

Arthur

LOL ! This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George was going to have to give a presentation to his coworkers about Risk Management. He didn't have the first idea about what to say. So, Elaine wrote it for him. Then, by accident, his notes got switched with Jerry's comedy act that was to be given at the Friar's Club. George walks up the the lecturn with Jerry's notes, looks down, and begins to read:

"What's the deal with Ovaltine? It comes in a round can, and you drink it in a round glass. Why not call it Roundtine?"

31

JW Kingdom Hall Target of Arson Fire

by kwr in

boise - fire crews are investigating an arson fire that destroyed a boise church overnight.

that fire happened at the jehovahs witness church just off of roosevelt and st. andrews just after 2 a.m. .

when crews arrived on scene, they found the building engulfed in flames, and say someone set the fire intentionally.

Arthur

Maybe a little off topic:

But I just got to thinking about the concept of "Mystical Manipulation" that is used by cultic groups - the using of supposed "miraculous" testimonials and experiences to convince members that God's blessing is excusively on that one group.

I can remember experiences related where individuals attempted to burn down Kingdom Halls, but by some turn of events, it didn't work; or in some cases, the fire could not be ignited. According to JWs, this is "obvious evidence of angelic protection". These kinds of experiences are related in the Yearbook all of the time. Yet, on this one single thread, I have heard of three separate incidents of Kingdom Halls being burned down. What gives?

Events such as these simply are not talked about at any length. All of the cases where Kingdom Halls and JWs were not protected from terrible acts of crime are not discussed in relation to the "miraculous" experiences. Because to do so would indicate that the angles had abandoned their post; and does not play into the use of Mystical Manipulation.

The truth is, good and bad things happen in all churches, and in all groups. There is no army of angels giving exclusive favor and protection to any one group.

37

You Must Push, Push, Push To Accomplish More, More, More

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

you must push, push, push to accomplish more, more, moreone of the major reasons in leaving the organization was the pressure exerted on the individual.

in the congregation.

it always seemed as if your best was never good enough and more could .

Arthur

All cultic groups are "works" oriented, and performance-based theologies. Their God sits up in heaven with a giant chalk-board where he continuously marks down tally marks under your name. Watch an "R" rated movie, and he erases one of the tally marks. Auxiliary pioneer for the month, and he adds one. And so the game continues.

In these groups, the masses are kept in unity by making them believe that God is just a giant Hall Monitor up in the sky who passes out merits and demerits. It only makes sense that the leadership of such groups would personify the very God concept they have. Judaizing God = Judaizing leadership.

I had begun to notice the organizations' fetish for numbers, statistics, figures, and percentages. It became more and more disheartening to know that one's spirituality, and standing with God could be so dependent upon the numbers that are turned in on a report slip. The "reporting prod" is a very powerful tool in exacting perfomance out of the membership.

I have said it many times. The Jehovah's Witnesses are a hybrid religion. They are a hybrid of first-century Judaism, and modern day multi-level marketing.

20

WE HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND IT'S CALLED...

by steve2 in

jw
friends

here's what will happen to jehovah's witnesses as they roll right past 2014: they will become increasingly like the religious group that influenced charles russell: the christadelphians who started around 1830-1840 and who have many basic doctrines in common with the witnesses.

the christadelphians were once an outspoken, vibrant, edgy "christian" group who spread their urgent end-times message far and wide.

they grew exponetially in the latter half of the nineteenth century, but their heyday is long past.

Arthur

The Christedelphians have groups that meet around the Los Angeles area. A friend of mine attended one of their meetings. He related that the meeting was eerily similar to a JW Sunday meeting. Everyone dresses up, and there are many strict mores about them. He commented that at the meeting, everyone takes communion. However, if one is not an actual "member", they are denied communion.

I guess the Watchtower organization is currently on the right track. Denying study article Watchtowers to non-members is a step in the right direction as to being a bona-fide cultic group. Partaking of the Watchtower "spiritual food" is about the closest thing to taking communion that most dubs will ever enjoy.

By the way, the JW organization actually has until 2034. Jesus said that "Just as the days of Noah were, so will be the return of the Son of Man". Remember that Noah was given 120 years notice before the deluge. The end of this system (1914) plus 120 years ends up in 2034. So, the Wathctower has some time left. If nothing happens after 2034; then the Watchtower Governing Body and the governing officers of the Christedelphians can begin negotion talks on their merger.

15

dogmatic statement on e-watchman

by Dr Zhivago in

jw
friends

over on e-watchman's forum there was a discussion about the harlot riding the beast of revelation.

one poster stated that because the harlot was riding the beast it proved she was in control of the beast.

now, i grew up on a farm and we had all sorts of animals.

Arthur

Upon exiting the Watchtower, I was surprised to learn of the number of JWs who have completely rejected the Brooklyn-based organization; yet still believe whole-heartedly in it's dogma. Many of them view themselves as a sort of quasi-prophet who has been called to correct the Watchtower Society; just as Jeremiah was called to correct the nation of Israel.

In Eastern Europe, there are huge gatherings of such people. They call themselves something to the effect of "Jehovah's True Witnesses". Over here, they just call themselves Watchtower reformers. They write blogs and books that are filled with simi-apologist / semi-critical rhetoric, but essentially, they're just independently written Watchtower publications. Greg Stafford comes to mind.

Why would anyone care to reform the Watchtower Society? Would they actually go back if the organization made all of the desired cosmetic changes? As Raymond Franz put it: you can knock out and move around the internal walls of a house, but it's still the same house.

17

DRUNKINESS AND ALCOHOL AT BETHEL

by badboy in

jw
friends

how much was there?

Arthur

I personally, did not drink while at Bethel, and the people that I hung out with didn't drink much either. I did hear of some rather wild stories while I was there. While I was there, one Bethelite got dismissed for getting drunk, and then attempting to climb up the suspension cables of the Brooklyn Bridge. (apparently the NYPD isn't amused with such "playful" activity).

I had also heard of Bethelites going out for beer and spending all of their cash away at the bar. Suddenly remembering that they needed to take the subway home; one of them would distract the Transit Authority employee while the other four would jump over the turnstyles to the subway platforms without paying. I never did figure out how the fifth guy got home.

Some of you may have heard of Paul Blizard. He was a Bethelite and is now a public speaker / Baptist Minister who speaks out on the Watchtower. In one of this talks, he related that when he was at Bethel, he went home to visit his parents for the weekend. His mother found a bottle of Jack Daniels in his suit case. She confronted him with it and asked him: "Is this what you are learning at Bethel?"

And he replied: "No, but it sure helps."

56

BirthdaysSimple Deconstruction of the JW Rationale

by AuldSoul in

to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.

whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.

ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.

Arthur

He then said, and I quote, "The organization doesn't need clever people, it only needs obedient people."

The reality of the matter is that cults need obedient people. The biggest threat to any cultic group is critical thinking skills and skills of discernement. Overseers like this have been so completely mentally castrated by Watchtower indoctrination that they have lost all reason. Only a person who believes that Christianity should comprise a unified formation of robots would utter such infantile, moronic stupidity.