Posts by Arthur

39

Need LOGICAL PRESENTATION that FDS is BS- talk w/2 elders wanting to help

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

jw
friends

my best friend showed up where i work to see what's going on with me.

i haven't called her since she told an elder at my hall that i was falling out of the truth, little does she know i've fallen and i don't want to get up.. i told her i had now done my research and i absolutely don't believe it.

she said she didn't want to hear my apostate stuff.

Arthur

we (JWs) are the ONLY ones who obey Christ's command to preach the Good News of God's Kingdom, and worship his God & Father!

LOL ! First of all Martian, what's this "WE" business? Second of all, JWs are incredibly naive about the act of "preaching". Preaching is not merely the act of door-to-door canvassing and placing literature. It encompasses so many different ways. The church I attend has many different ministries in which it performs. They go into hopspitals, orphanages, and prisons. Oh, and guess what. People do it out of pure desire; not out of compulsion for turning in time. They also perform charatble acts for people, as described in the book of James. You have read the book of James haven't you?

Also, I would suggest you go to a library and check out some books on Christian history. There were missionaries and Bible study groups in places like China long before the Watchtower Society even came onto the scene. Missionaries were translating Bibles into African dialects before C.T. Russell was even born.

You may want to read the book of Galatians where Paul warns people not to follow new Gospels. When an organization preaches that salvation can only be attained through an organizational membership, that Jesus is mediator to only 144,000, and that people must accept a huge sectarian doctrinal package before they can undergo Christian baptims, they are guilty of preaching a new Gospel. But I guess we are supposed to be impressed by the fact that JWs go door-to-door and pass out Awake articles on Kangaroos and pineapple growing.

21

Serena Williams - Renewed JW activity & Boyfriends?

by Seeker4 in

this is a paragraph from a ny times article today on tennis champion serena williams.

her comment is in regard to how she dealt with the murder of her older sister a couple of years ago.. "i tried to develop a better relationship with god," williams, who was raised a jehovah's witness, told me over the phone.

"you have a strong solid foundation, the bible says, you won't crack, but the man who built his house in the sand, his house went down spiritually.

Arthur

I remember a few years back, I did find it really strange that she publicly talked about being a JW when it was known that she had been with several guys. Oh well, I guess it isn't just tennis balls that she's been hitting.

78

We are free to love

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

what i have noticed since pulling away from group thinking, mindsets, rules and superstitions, that i am open to a broader range of loving people.. i am not sure i can blame all this on the jw expericance.

as children we are taught from our tribe, (family and enviroment, church, school, extended family, neighborhood..........who to love and who not to love.

i used to believe as the witnesses taught, you have to "beat" the evil out of children.. have you ever watched a group of small children unattended?

Arthur

This is a great thread purp.

Jesus drove home this point beautifully. In giving lessons on love, he rebuked the hypocrisy of those who only showed love to the ones in whom they had favorable relations.

In his parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus conspicuously used an analogy where a man of a different religion was performing an an act of selfless love to a person whom he should have shunned. The Jews believed that the Samaritans were "apostates" and had essentially been cut off from God's favor. Yet, the Samaritan still gave the Jew his time and resources for his well-being. Jesus stated that Christians must demonstrate this same quality.

Peter Gregerson (the man whom Ray Franz had a meal with and was disfellowshipped for it) gave a talk at a BRCI conference on the topic of Christian love. He explained that love is not a warm, fuzzy, feeling that one has - but love is a VERB. One does not have to approve of another or even like a person in order to be loving to them. This ties in to Jesus' parable of the Samaritan.

Paul later expounded on Jesus' words at Romans 12:20. He wrote:

"But, if you enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink . ."

I find it very strange that JWs can pray for Jehovah to help and comfort "the brothers" in lands such as the earthquake you mentioned, without fully comprehending what they are saying. When they say "brothers", they are only refering to members of the Jehovah's Witness organization. They are not praying for any non-denominational Christians, Lutherans, Methodists, or anyone else. I find this very difficult to square with all of the clear teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

It's ironic that non-religious organizations such as the International Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders have often demonstrated more Christian principles than an organization that claims to be the exclusive "Faithful Steward" of Jesus Christ.

13

Please read if you commented on topic re:FDS/BS- meeting elders-BACKGROUND

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

jw
friends

my situation is a little different than most.the only family i have in the borg are my in-laws who don't care much for me any way.

while my husband has studied off and on for years and is currently attending most meetings, he has never felt "ready" to get baptized.. i was in the truth (gag) for 10 years, went through a bad divorce from an unbeliever and disassociated myself , i was depressed, worn out and felt guilty for not being able to keep up with the "do more" bs.

i still believed and blamed myself.

Arthur

Not caring if you are disfellowshipped is a good place to be. It shows that you have made some progress. Question: have you read Steven Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control" yet? If not, I strongly suggest that you not only study it well (underlining the points which apply to the WTS), but also share these key points with your husband. If you are so inclined, some of the research in Hassan's book just might make the elders themselves a bit queasy if you share it with them.

One of the points that Hassan makes is that ALL cultic groups practice what is called Information Control. This involves telling the members never to read any information that disagrees with or is unflattering of the group / organization. All cultic groups also display a very irrational disdain and fear of former members. All cultic groups and churches command their members never to have contact with, or the read any material published by a former member.

You may find it interesting for example, that there is not a single Scripture that can support a ban on books by former members such as Raymond Franz. Oh, the elders will surely try to use various proof texts, but the ones that they use are in the context of either those who are unrepentant fornicators, drunkards, and extortioners, or those who have abandoned the Christian faith all together. Just because someone cannot conscientiously support an organization does not make them an "anit-Christ". If this were true, then one would have to state that people such as William Tyndale and John Wycliff were also anti-Christs. And if they try to play the "Faithful Slave card" (i.e. "the Slave Says"); you can kindly tell them that not even a "Faithful Slave" has the right to speak where the Scriptures are silent. If they do, they are no longer "discreet".

If you do have a confrontation with elders, make sure you remain very calm, cool, and collected. JWs always expect "apostates" to be angry and demonstrate a rebellious attitude. Show them that you are rational and sober-minded about the matter. They will want to make you feel flustered and off-balance. Stick to one topic at a time, and don't let them jump from topic to topic.

18

Another JCanon related-ish topic

by IP_SEC in

jw
friends

am i the only one that finds it interesting that religious people argue and make jabs at jcanon?.

you cant understand that every jesus, moses, and saul of tarsus was a jcanon that happened to be 'deified' in some way posthumously?.

do you really see a difference between jcanon and saul of tarsus?.

Arthur

I don't read his posts. They are just too damn long.

9

"Reform Movement" Disproves Core Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses

by freeme in

just found it in the news and wanna know watcha think about it.

its about the 1914 doctrine and why it is false using the bible alone.. 607 bce vs. jeremiah the prophet .

according to jeremiah 52:12-13, the babylonian king nebuchadnezzar destroyed jerusalem and the first temple in the nineteenth year of his reign.

Arthur

I would say that the most thorough and most comprehensive study of the whole 1914 doctrine is Carl Olof Jonson's The Gentile Times Reconsidered. Most Witnesses still have the misunderstanding that C.T. Russell and his Bible Students developed the chronology. Carl Olof Johnson disects the origins of this chronology as well as the several other pseudo-prophetic dates which were put forth.

When discovering how this silly number-crunching was developed by the Second Adventists instead of the Watchtower Society, this can make a JW more willing to look into it a little deeper. This one fact alone is huge, because the Second Adventists were the geniuses who got into the Pyramidology hype; and all of their other dates and timetables have had to be thrown into the scrap heap.

Second-Adventist chronology is not a very solid foundation to build a religious organization on; in my opinion.

35

JW Trivial Persuit -- The Game

by V in

i am collecting good trivia questions for a jehovah's witness version of trivial persuit.

i am particularly interested in trivia that pertains to the "unknown" history and practices of the organisation.. examples: .

what image is printed on the cover of the studies in the scriptures series?who was the only member of the governing body to be disfellowshipped?what year was the "faithful prophets of old" confidently expected to return to beth sarim?

Arthur

I agree. Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is indeed a trivial persuit.

39

Need LOGICAL PRESENTATION that FDS is BS- talk w/2 elders wanting to help

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

jw
friends

my best friend showed up where i work to see what's going on with me.

i haven't called her since she told an elder at my hall that i was falling out of the truth, little does she know i've fallen and i don't want to get up.. i told her i had now done my research and i absolutely don't believe it.

she said she didn't want to hear my apostate stuff.

Arthur

The May 15, 2007 Question From Readers article presents some very big problems for the established doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class. The Society has always taught that the Slave Class has comprised the entire annointed remnant of 144,000 spirit-annointed Christians.

The May 15 QFR was a bombshell in that it stated that annointed ones within the congregation do not necessarily have any more insight or holy spirit than do non-annointed ones. This statement alone is a blatant contradiction of many NT Scriptures. Remember that the Society teaches that the NT was written primarily to the 144,000. Also, remember that the Society teaches that annointed ones make up the prophetic "John Class" which is delivering the message of judgement to the nations. Ask these elders how a bunch of people who don't have any more holy spirit than non-annointed ones could make up a prophetic "John Class". I have provided a list of Scriptures which would contradict this QFR article. A few of the Scritptures plainly state that Christians would have an outpouring of holy spirit and would not need to be taught by anyone except Jesus Christ. There are Scriptures which state that there is a variety of services rendered by Christians, but all under the one and only Head; Christ Jesus.

One Scripture is directed to elders not to lord it over the flock. Yet, the QFR explicitly states that all annointed ones dutifully work under the direction (and teaching); giving their unwavering compliance to the GB. It is very subtly telling the rest of the "Slave Class" that they aren't jack. Here is the list of Scriptures for you to consider. You may or may not want to use all of them. Some verses are better than others for this particular discussion.

Just read each of these Scriptures carefully, ever mindful that the Society teaches that these verses were written to the 144,000 annointed ones. Then, go back and compare the QFR article, and see how it blatantly contradicts many such verses. Here they are:

Matt 23:8-10; 1Cor 1:24; 1 Cor 12:4-11; 2 Cor 1:21,22; Galat 6:4-8; Eph 4:11-16; Col 2:16-22;
James 4:11,12; 1 Pet 4:10,11; 1 Pet 5:1-3; 1 John 2:27; 1 John 2:20; 1 Pet 1:1,2

112

favorite movie lines

by bigdreaux in

mine is from animal house: .

over!?!?!?!!?

was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor?!?!?!?!?!

Arthur

Austin Powers:

Austin Powers, pointing at a stranger in a casino yells: "There you are !"

The man replies: "Have we met?"

Austin Powers replies: "No, but that's where you are."

Airplane:

Lesley Neilson looks at the airline flight attendant and says: "The pilot needs to land this plane immediately, this man needs to get to a hospital !"

Flight attendant asks: "What is it?"

Lesley Neilson repies: "It's a big building that has sick people in it, but that's not important right now."

24

ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING....

by Mary in

jw
friends

well, tomorrow's the big 3-0 since elvis checked out.

where were you when you heard the news?

we were getting ready for the meeting and heard it on the news.

Arthur

one of the elders told us younguns that we should NOT be talking about Elvis in Jehovah's house of Worship.

LOL He was probably one of those Judaizers who felt that Elvis had been a corrupting influence on society. According to him; the way in which Elvis shook and gyrated his body was probably viewed as suggestive and licentious. It was much safer to deaden one's body members by watching Lawrence Welk or Perry Como.