Posts by Arthur

11

Is it true there are now two watchtowers?

by dawg in

jw
friends

i've heard there are now two watchtowers being distributed; one for publishers and one the general public.

can anyone confirm this?

also, i've heard the wtbts is suggesting that people get rid of the internet in their homes... is this true?

Arthur

What is the reason they're giving for putting out two WT's?

In a previous thread, someone posted the Kingdom Ministry article that explained why. The gist of the article was that the "public" version would present basic Scriptural discussions, while the "JW version" would focus on the "deeper things" and would be more in tune with the needs of the congregation. Most of us agree that this is just a cover for the fact that they do not want the public to see some of the things that they are printing in the study articles. An example might be the last WT study article on giving obedience and submission the the slave class. This article was a shameless piece of propoganda. I think that many in the public who would read this, comparing it with their own Bible studying would be offended to say the least. Many of the WT study article smack of cultism and totalitarianism. They also want to do everything they can to prevent the study articles from getting into the hands of "apostates". I'm sure that someone in Brooklyn has at least taken note of Blondie's weekly commentaries on the WT study articles. The Watchtower organization is not too friendly to the notion of people having open and honest discussions about their study articles. The fact that people would actually ask serious questions and critique the teachings of the "Slave Class" is desecration in their minds.

37

Does Anybody Read The Bible Here Anymore???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i don't.

it's not that i won't.

funny thing, is i've collected over 100 different bible versions and translations..

Arthur

I liked the Letter of James. Franz' commentary was excellent.

Oh yeah, the Letter of James is a really good one too. One book that I have developed a special interest in lately is the book of 1 Corinthians. In chapter 12, Paul does a beautiful job in describing the congregation; or the Body of Christ. He likens it to the human body with vastly differing functions (nose, ear, mouth, eyes, etc). He tells Christians that they will serve different functions based upon their individual gifts and talents. Verses 4 and 5 in the Good News Translation state: "There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them. There are different ways of serving, but the same Lord is served." The rest of the chapter goes onto to expand on these thoughts showing that sacred service is something very personal, and is unique to different individuals. Chapter 12 shoots down the Watchtower's claim that all Christians are to serve in lock-step conformity and perform all of the same duties as prescribed by the organization headquarters. Paul's words make it plain that not all individuals would be evangelists. But then, maybe the apostle Paul was an "apostate" too.

37

Does Anybody Read The Bible Here Anymore???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i don't.

it's not that i won't.

funny thing, is i've collected over 100 different bible versions and translations..

Arthur

Yes, I have a few translations and I have even kept my NWT Reference Bible. Despite the NWT's flaws, the reference Bible is still a valuable resource for cross-referencing verses and for it's large index in the back.

My favorite Bible book is Paul's Letter to the Galatians. I love his blunt rebuke of the Judaizers, his warnings about new gospels, and his admonishion not to become slaves of men.

5

You'd think jw-media.org would have reported the lawsuits

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

after all, don't they want their "loving heavenly father" to know how pleased they are with the outcome?.

instead, we find the following.... http://www.jw-media.org/.

top storyeuropean court rules against georgias campaign of terror.

Arthur

With Jehovah's blessing, the lawsuits have been resolved. We give all praise to our God for bringing a victorious conclusion to this most recent attack.

LOL - The press release would probably hail this as a victory because their judgements only ran into the tens of millions verses the hundreds of millions against "Babylon the Great".

8

Famous Presiding Overseers

by mtsgrad in

jw
friends

i think dr perry cox from scrubs would be a brilliant presiding overseer.. dr. cox is sarcastic, unpleasant and narcissistic.

however, he is a very skilled doctor.

he would not care what the co said, would ignore the watchtower or governing body at will.

Arthur

Richard Pryor

The diatribes about the #%$*! Canaanites and the jokes about "the bitch Jezebel" would have added some zesty flavor to the Watchtower studies and would have filled the Kingdom Hall every Sunday.

5

Who is the god of this system of things?

by LtCmd.Lore in

i'm putting together a list of scriptural examples of jehovah directly intervening in the affairs of nations for his own purposes.. and then of course a much smaller list of all the times satan did that.. (obviously this is intended for jws, so i'm going by their interpretations of things.).

here's what i have so far for jehovah:.

1: jehovah hardens the heart of pharoah so that he won't let israel go.. 2: confuses the human languages, at the tower of babel.. 3: causes esau to lose the birthright and creates two entirely different nations, plus predetermines the political relationship between the two.. 4: gave nebuchadnezzer a dream predicting the next couple world powers.

Arthur

You could reference the temptation of Jesus in the gospel accounts of Matthew chapter 4, Mark chapter 1, and Luke chapter 4. The final temptation was Satan offering Jesus all of the Kingdoms of the world if he would perform an act of worship. This showed that Satan already held dominion over the nations and their governments.

Apart from this, you would have to reference most of the book of Revelation - as Satan is portrayed as producing Babylon the Great in oppostion to Jehovah, as well as being the driving force behind the outbreak of WWI (according to JW teachings).

27

So I finally broke the ice with my fiancee....

by R.F. in

for those of you that don't know, i've recently had many doubts about the org and realized that i can't just let them go.

the thing was however, that i was nervous as to how my fiancee would react when i would make my doubts known to her.

so.....i finally talked to her today and it went a little something like this.......... i started with us reading together acts.

Arthur

The thing that gets me is the fact that my fiancee readily admits that she isn't quite strong in bible knowledge and, quite honestly, she can't explain the bible chronology of arriving at 607 to save her life.

Yes, I could say that I fit into this category for many years. It wasn't until I seriously started digging into many of these doctrines; (using the Society's own publications) that I began to see how shakey they really were. I would say that the more esoteric and nebulous a doctrine is (despite it's dubious nature), the more convincing it seems to be. A perfect example of this is the Revelation Climax book. How many JWs could easily or adequately provide an explanation to a householder regarding some of John's visions without having to read it right out of the book? Yet, these arbitrary interpretations (many of which I think are utterly silly) are viewed as Gospel truth which is above and beyond all question.

As far as you fiance is concerned, I sure wish I had some good advice for you. The trouble is, many JWs do not fully comprehend the significance surrounding the 607 date. I know of some elders who feel that it is just a peripheral issue; something that only "apostates" like to "knit-pick" about. I'm afraid that your fiance may come to this conclusion even if she were to be convinced of the inaccuracy of it. Anyone who begins to research the 607 date using only Watchtower publications can easily be swayed by the sophistry and faulty arguments that are used to uphold the date.

Personally, I would not try to push the 607 issue on her any more. You may be more successful in presenting some of your other findings which can be readily looked up in the Bible. The problem with the 607/587 issue, is that the Bible does not clearly say (although I do believe that it does agree with the 587 date). Other doctrinal issues such as the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" or legalism can be easily discussed and verified by studying Jesus' own teachings as well as the Apostle Paul.

82

Have You Ever Met A "Celebrity" or Actually See One Face To Face?

by minimus in

jw
friends

while i was in new york i walked by two men and one looked like the comedian jackie mason whom i adore.

i looked at him and said, "i just wanted to say how much i enjoy your shows.

i've seen you perform a number of times".

Arthur

A couple of months ago, I went into an Aaron Brothers art store in Studio City (near LA). I saw Robert Blake, in fact, him and I literally almost ran into each other in one of the aisles. He was bragging to one of the clerks about all of the countries he's been to and the theatre productions he's been in.

( yes, he is just as creepy in person )

27

So I finally broke the ice with my fiancee....

by R.F. in

for those of you that don't know, i've recently had many doubts about the org and realized that i can't just let them go.

the thing was however, that i was nervous as to how my fiancee would react when i would make my doubts known to her.

so.....i finally talked to her today and it went a little something like this.......... i started with us reading together acts.

Arthur

Sorry to hear all of that R.F. In regards to what you wrote:

She couldn't really explain it, but I honestly just think she's worried that I questioned something the organization told us to believe. By the way I talked to her about scholars generally agreeing that Jerusalem wasn't destroyed in 607 B.C.E.

Yes, I would certainly agree that saying anything like this to a loved one is very unnerving to them. Remember what the Watchtower study articles always say about the "seeds of doubt". The very fact that you would dare question anything that the sacred "Slave Class" teaches is a sign of a "lack of faith in Jehovah". Most JWs have completely mentally welded the organizational leadership to Jehovah, so that they no longer make a distinction between the two. Question any teaching = question the "Slave". Question the Slave = question Jehovah. This little mental equation is what controls the entire thought process. I guess Paul's warnings about not becomming "slaves of men" is an antiquated notion in the Watchtower organization.

I have been through this with a couple of JWs. I learned very quickly to shut the conversation down and back-peddle as I could tell that they were getting irrationally upset by my line of questioning. If there is any silver lining to all of this; I would say that it is so much better that you came to these realizations before you got married. There are men on this forum who did not come to the realizations you made until they were married with children. Now, they feel trapped.

Not that I am attempting to downplay you situation. I know it's hard. I am currently going through some serious tension with family because they know that I doubt the organization. It can be very painful.

6

Trying to talk to JW family

by frustratedxjw in

jw
friends

i have visited your forum on many occasions, but never posted myself.

i read the information on the recent 16 pedophile settlements made by the watchtower.

i wasn't sure if i should tell my jw mother or not.

Arthur

Why do Witnesses always turn negative information about the Watchtower into a personal attack on the one telling them the facts?

I would like to share some very interesting comments from noted psychiatrist Dr. David R. Hawkins:

"To protect itself, the ego welcomes the concept of "labeling" to dispense with unwanted realities. The illusion is that by declaring a reality to be a "myth" and just a "label", it will disappear."

"The downside of misplaced faith is that it is painful to overcome denial. It is disillusioning and therefore creates anger, which is also unpleasant to integrous people. Pride also precludes awareness that one has been duped."

( Truth Vs. Falsehood, pgs. 222 and 226; respectively )